AGS Steam Games

Forums → WEPR → The Philosophic Thread

45 13408
Omnihero10
offline
Omnihero10
2,515 posts
Nomad

Ive been thinking a lot, developing some questions like:

What is Reality?
What is experience?
How are we here?
Why us?



I was wondering if i could get a group of intelligent people to help answer and validate these questions.

  • 45 Replies
Kasic
offline
Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Is an action good or evil based on its intention, or its outcome? If I intend to cure cancer, but instead kill a million people, am I good or evil?


There's several problems with this. First, you would have to define everything 'good' and everything 'evil.' I don't think there is a way to do this, as you could give me a situation for most any action and I could give a hypothetical as to how that action may not be 'evil.' Second, one's intentions are connected to the outcome, but they are separate.

Is the person at fault for killing millions with their good intentions? Yes. Does it make them evil? No. It's not even that simple though, as their intentions would come into play. From one's own perspective it's doubtful that they would be intentionally be 'bad' just because.
Blackbeltr0
offline
Blackbeltr0
769 posts
Jester

Is an action good or evil based on its intention, or its outcome? If I intend to cure cancer, but instead kill a million people, am I good or evil?


depends on what u r like after if u are like oh well it was in the name of science and they can't sue me then yes evil but if it is ahh why did i try it on millions of people it is all my fault the good
Bladerunner679
offline
Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

Is an action good or evil based on its intention, or its outcome? If I intend to cure cancer, but instead kill a million people, am I good or evil?


sometimes, the ends don't justify the means. this happens to be one of them.

-Blade
EnigmaX
offline
EnigmaX
101 posts
Nomad

There's several problems with this. First, you would have to define everything 'good' and everything 'evil.' I don't think there is a way to do this, as you could give me a situation for most any action and I could give a hypothetical as to how that action may not be 'evil.' Second, one's intentions are connected to the outcome, but they are separate.


For the sake of debate, let it now stand as thus: if I commit an action that you yourself hold to be good, and yet the outcome is something you yourself hold to be evil, am I, according to your own views, good or evil? Why?

The point isnt to argue what good and evil is/are, but whether more weight should be given to the intention or the end. Mills vs Kant, if you will.
EnigmaX
offline
EnigmaX
101 posts
Nomad

sometimes, the ends don't justify the means. this happens to be one of them.


But wouldn't a million deaths be a small price to pay for the untold amount of lives it could save? Wouldn't the end be greater, and therefore justify, the means?

For you, why doesnt the end justify the means?
HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

For the sake of debate, let it now stand as thus:

Not only should we not ignore that good and evil are subjective, but also whether we should see it as an "either/or" situation at all, or not.

For the sake of debate, let it now stand as thus: if I commit an action that you yourself hold to be good, and yet the outcome is something you yourself hold to be evil, am I, according to your own views, good or evil? Why?

I think you oversaw Kasic's last sentence:
Second, one's intentions are connected to the outcome, but they are separate.


The point isnt to argue what good and evil is/are, but whether more weight should be given to the intention or the end. Mills vs Kant, if you will.

Why does it even matter? "Responsible" more than answers the question at hand imo. You are responsible of your acts, whether the act or impact is seen as good or bad by one or several people. If you accidentally killed millions of people, you were careless at best.
EnigmaX
offline
EnigmaX
101 posts
Nomad

Why does it even matter?


Yes, does it even matter?

If you accidentally killed millions of people, you were careless at best.


Why would it be carelessness, as oppossed to some gross moral stain?

The point you all seem to be missing is that I'm not asking who or what, but why. There is no right or wrong answer; this is philosophy. What I'm after is why you are answering as you are.
ianhq
offline
ianhq
150 posts
Nomad

Why Us?

Why not?

Skyla
offline
Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

All of Existence, another word that is randomly capitalized.

Think of your brain as a computer. "Experience" would be like the things you download on the computer.

What do you mean by that? Abiogenisis caused simple life to exist, which evolved over millions of years to become humans. Is that what you meant?

...Eh?

Validate questions?


Your tone reeks of suppression of free-thought - the questions required a deeper, philosophical reply rather than the holier-than-thou approach of complacency that you chose to take.

All of Existence, another word that is randomly capitalized.


From a deeper perspective, what about the by-products of existence? Specifically the by-product of our consciousness? I'm referring to thoughts - numbers, abstract ideas, signs, symbols, ideas, are these a part of reality? I could argue that one who thinks all the time, living in one's own thoughts and perpetual repetition of thoughts in the own mind, is living in an illusion created by one's mind - lost touch with your definition of reality - existing matter.

Think of your brain as a computer. "Experience" would be like the things you download on the computer.


Again, too simplistic for a philosophical approach. Do you define yourself by your experiences? If everything we accomplished in our lives is naught, do we cease to exist? When someone asks you who you are, you begin to tell them the name that your parents chose to give to you, and the experiences that you've been through in the past. This raises an important philosophical question, are we just what we have done?

What do you mean by that? Abiogenisis caused simple life to exist, which evolved over millions of years to become humans. Is that what you meant?


A valid answer for a scientific question, but how did consciousness come to be? How does consciousness emerge from an unconscious, blind, dumb universe? I do not believe that. We are too quick to label the world around us as blind matter and energy, and ourselves as a cosmic fluke.

One could speculate that the universe and everything within it is a very basic form of consciousness, but is no different from the same consciousness that we possess. The Earth is a rock, so it could be argued that rocks are conscious, this may seem very counter-intuitive, in that you may find yourself thinking that there is something it is like to be a rock. This is a neutral monism approach that our mentality and our physicality are not so different.

It is important to think, let our minds run loose, rather than discard such questions as silly. Many of us wondered about these questions when we were children, but our parents taught us that it was pointless or ridiculous to ask such questions, and we shut up.
Skyla
offline
Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

Double posting to expand on this:

Again, too simplistic for a philosophical approach. Do you define yourself by your experiences? If everything we accomplished in our lives is naught, do we cease to exist? When someone asks you who you are, you begin to tell them the name that your parents chose to give to you, and the experiences that you've been through in the past. This raises an important philosophical question, are we just what we have done?


I believe it's important to define ourselves, to know what we mean by "I" without referring to our accomplishments and experiences. Then, we can truly live in the present, I graduated from high school years ago, that should be irrelevant to who I am today. It's gone, I'm no longer there. Zen and Buddhist philosophy teachers often instruct students to walk across the room and back, before asking them "Where are your footprints?" This is done to free them from their past, and to live contently in the present.

I'd like to present the way of life of a tribe in the Amazon, the Piraha. The Piraha were untouched by modern civilization until the 20th century. As a result, they developed an interesting philosophy and language. The Piraha perceive the world only as it is in the present. When something can no longer be perceived, it ceases to exist to them. They do not save food for later, they have no myths about their creation, they do not bother with such concepts. It is only the here and now that matters to the Piraha.

Just thought it was interesting and worth sharing. (:
thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,826 posts
Nomad

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvrcr4fIBT1qibz0jo1_1280.jpg

HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

NOTHING TO DO HERE

Hehe.. for my part I'm split about philosophy. There's one part of me thinking some discussions are interesting and raise legitimate questions about several real issues. There's also a prominent part of me thinking philosophy artificially creates unnecessary problems it can't even solve and is a lot about who uses the most fancy words and thoughts ^^ almost like poetry, come to think of it.
Skyla
offline
Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

There's also a prominent part of me thinking philosophy artificially creates unnecessary problems it can't even solve and is a lot about who uses the most fancy words and thoughts ^^ almost like poetry, come to think of it.


That is the point. You see, it's about taking advantage of our unique ability to think. To consciously ask these questions, regardless of whether they can be answered. It can help us understand more about ourselves and our nature, and that of the universe around us. Thinking too much, of course, is a strain on our being. Alan Watts, although some of his teachings are questionable, mentioned that thinking in moderation is good, that it is a "good servant, but a bad master".
SSTG
offline
SSTG
13,055 posts
Treasurer

What is Reality?

Whatever you want it to be.
What is experience?
The complement of theory, the some of your mistakes, knowledge, life events. Stick your fingers in boiling water, you burn yourself then you learn not to do it again, that's experience.
How are we here?

Because some will say in the beginning...
I'd say what if there was no beginning but just a circle, no birth, no life, and no death, just a cycle that reproduce itself constantly.
Why us?

That's a little vague, can you elaborate?
SSTG
offline
SSTG
13,055 posts
Treasurer

What is experience?

The complement of theory, the some of your mistakes, knowledge, life events. Stick your fingers in boiling water, you burn yourself then you learn not to do it again, that's experience.

Oops, I meant sum not some. xD
Showing 31-45 of 45