ForumsWEPRGun control in the US

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theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
807 posts
Farmer

Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.)
I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons.
Supporting evidence: the following skit:
What's your reason?
Setting: A gun shop, modern day.
A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please."
The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?"
The Customer says "I need one for personal protection."
The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell."
The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!"
The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left.
Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun."
Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks.
The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting."
The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states.
The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff.
Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says.
The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!"
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves.
Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says.
The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other".
"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?

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xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
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Nomad

[quote]Did we watch the same video? Alex Jones wouldn't answer Morgan's questions. Not only that he kind of just started rambling about nonsense.

We did watch the same video and its not the gun that kills the person like alex was saying....Its the person holding it! Piers is trying to avoid that whole statement there. The meds they put us on here do affect our brain and that is another source of the porblem. This is not nonsense this is the truth!

RON PAUL!!!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

RON PAUL!!!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

SPAMM!!!! SPAMMM!!!! GIVE ME SPAMMM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!
ron paul can lick my hairy ***.
the constitution is not holy scripture.
and you already have liberty. so i can only give you death.
xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
11 posts
Nomad

whats your name so i can deport you?

RON PAUL!!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/attachments/c6-z06-discussion/47706078d1349149601-new-2013-shelby-662-h-p-vs-c6-z06-trollspray.jpg

xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
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Nomad

look u r from the netherlands u cant carry a gun so u dont really have much of a opinion in this matter..

RON PAUL!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

look u r from the netherlands u cant carry a gun so u dont really have much of a opinion in this matter..

i can if i really want to.
xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
11 posts
Nomad

yeah but listen to me. yall over there are in a really bad government system.
We over here have the right to carry guns for a reason to fight against a tyrannical government like yall have.
RON PAUL!!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Well, in many ways it does. Owning a military grade weapon is essentially pointless, even if it were modified for competition, the potential to cause harm is far greater than that of a handgun. As many of us have said before, we're not advocating the banning of guns, we're advocating stricter gun control policy. Background checks, reducing the type of weapons available to civilians, that sort of thing.


Why ban a military grade assault rifle? Such few gun crimes are committed with rifles. Such a ban would result in so many good people losing their guns, yet prevent so very few deaths it's not even funny.

It's like suggesting we make it illegal to ban swords. Sure, they aren't being used to kill people, but they have that potential!

This argument is stupid. An untrained civilian population has very little chance against the American military's technological advantage, and training. It's stupidity is further increased by the implication that America will magically transform into a totalitarian state in which people will unite whole heartedly and resist.


The LAST thing the American government wants to resort to is using military force against citizens on American soil. Even if it's impossible for civilians to defeat the military, such a fight would be a complete disaster for the government. If the American government ever used its military on its own people, I can't tell you what would happen, but I can tell you that the government will have a much harder time gaining support from both citizens and foreign nations.

The U.S. government would likely bend to the people's will before they use extended military force to wipe everyone out. I could be wrong, but it's not as simple as who has the bigger guns. It is politics after all.

So the argument that we should own guns to defend us from the government isn't entirely crazy, because guns at least keep the government on their toes.

This man is truly insane. As this video shows Alex Jones, not only failed to debate anything relating to the subject at hand, but flat out refused to, despite that being the purpose of the entire debate.


Alex said a lot of crazy things, but he wasn't entirely wrong. He definitely bested Piers Morgan in debate.

Piers Morgan could have picked just about ANYONE to have on his show, he picked Piers Morgan and still lost the debate. I remember hearing someone say something along the lines of, "Piers Morgan went to the beach, found a scrawny kid to pick on, tried to kick sand in the kids face, missed, then tripped on his own butt."

Now, I realize I'm using an extremist as my primary evidence, but I simply cannot account for American citizen's paranoia. It's almost as if the cold war never ended.


It's impossible not to sound paranoid when you're on the verge of losing one of your freedoms.

It seems like Americans are obsessed with guns. How do Americans get this reputation? People suggests American's give up their right to bear arms, then American do everything they can to defend those rights. People wonder, "wow, how can anyone fight so hard to protect their rights? They must be obsessed." If you don't threaten to take away a man's guns, he's likely not going to obsess over them.

But what about people who obsess over guns all the time, not just in times of debate? The people who want to own as many high powered rifles they can? The people who want to blow up cars with a single well placed bullet? What about these crazy mo fo's? Well, how often do we see these people going around killing others? We almost never do.

When we look at gun crime, we have to look at how much of it is gang related. We must understand why gangs exist and how we can prevent gangs from forming in the first place. Gangs are the problem here.

whats your name so i can deport you?

RON PAUL!!!! THE CONSTITUTION!!! GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!


Please stop spamming that message. Also, suggesting we deport people who question the 2nd amendment is just as bad as suggesting we change the 2nd amendment itself. I've been debating people about this for weeks here. In fact, I even made a thread about it a while back.

yeah but listen to me. yall over there are in a really bad government system.
We over here have the right to carry guns for a reason to fight against a tyrannical government like yall have.


That's not the libertarian mentality. Libertarians believe everyone should be able to say almost anything they want. We shouldn't censor people because we feel they're wrong, or because we feel they shouldn't have a say. Libertarianism is about allowing anyone with a voice to state what they honestly believe, with no masters necessary to give these people permission to open their mouths. Piers Morgan might be wrong, but I'll defend his right to speak his nonsense, even if I disagree with him.

If you're going to spread the libertarian message, you can't shove it in people's faces.
xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
11 posts
Nomad

ill agree on the last part noname. Im just trying to get my point across. Do u like Ron Paul?

xxcommandoxx97
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xxcommandoxx97
11 posts
Nomad

I didt realize the RON PAUL thing was spamming, just voicing my opinion about things

wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

Fair points, however, is it truly a violation of your rights to suggest legislation to restrict the ownership of guns from the mentally unstable? Or, to perform a background check to make sure of those buying a weapon?

Keep in mind NoName, that I'm not saying ban guns.

kklitzke
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kklitzke
39 posts
Nomad

i honestly think it is just a waste of time to even bring this issue to congress if they do restrict it it will just make a big problem with te NRA and even if they ristrict the limit on ammo in a clip it wont prevent a guy from bringing a fully loaded clip or even 5 guns loaded with 7 bullets so this is just a sense of false security they are trying to push on us it is just rediculous to even try this if they do i will be aginst the law every day and so will so many other americans

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

Keep in mind NoName, that I'm not saying ban guns.


Sorry, my bad.

Fair points, however, is it truly a violation of your rights to suggest legislation to restrict the ownership of guns from the mentally unstable? Or, to perform a background check to make sure of those buying a weapon?


I hate using the word "mentally unstable" because it's such a vague term that can be stretched over anything. Can we get more specific with what mental illnesses would prohibit people from buying firearms?

Many people jumped on the "we need to test people's mental health" after they heard about the Sandy Hooks shooter being autistic. What are we going to do, prohibit autistic people or people with autistic children from owning firearms?

One of Obama's executive orders states that doctors will be able to not only ask their patients if they or their family own any firearms, but they'll also be able to report that family to the government. I believe doctors should be allowed to ask whatever they want, but anything the patient says should remain between the doctor, the patient, and the patient's family ONLY with few exceptions.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

You're right the term is too vague. I suppose it would have to be based upon a case to case basis in most instances. However, there are mentall illnesses which promote violent behaviour.

Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

What are we going to do, prohibit autistic people or people with autistic children from owning firearms?


Yeah, pretty sure him being autistic wasn't the reason why he shot some kids...

I believe doctors should be allowed to ask whatever they want, but anything the patient says should remain between the doctor, the patient, and the patient's family ONLY with few exceptions.


I agree with that. Doctors should be able to ask people if they own guns and advise them whether or not that may be safe if they have some sort of mental condition. They don't need to be reporting it to the government though.
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