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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

There have been generally accepted theories about things in science that have been only recently proven wrong and were considered fact for thousands of years.


You do realize that this is one major reason why science is so much more sensible than religion? It doens't have a death hold on all of its claims, and will change its views once proven otherwise.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

there's a difference to someone who doesn't believe and someone who is an Atheist.


Atheist just means without belief in a deity. So what's the difference?

And what I truly don't understand about atheists, is their lack of reason.


How is it a lack of reasoning to dismiss a claim that requires faith instead of evidence?

that they cannot hope to understand how it was obtained, but they don't understand the risk involved.


The nice thing about objective evidence is that we CAN not only understand how it was obtained but (with the right time and resources) duplicate those findings.

But if atheists are right, when we die we are both bodies in the ground or ashes in the wind, with the same chance to be remembered by the world as the next guy. But if Christians are right, Atheists lose. Forever.


Pascal's Wager, you don't take into account the possibility of another religion being correct while yours is wrong that can leave you equally losing, forever.


So what is the reasoning behind being an atheist?


For me it's because I care about what's real or not. So long as religion and the belief in god (any god) requires faith it doesn't.

I may get other answers.

Why must you be so obsessed with proof? Have you never had an impulse in your life? De Ja Vu? Is nothing in your life really without explanation?


This obsession with objective evidence is that it allows us to verify what we know is accurate to the best of our abilities.
Why don't you care about that?

Why not just kill yourself and remove all the hard work that you have to do to live? How can you understand anyone doing a good thing?


Why not just let yourself die so you can get to heaven quicker? I enjoy living.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Pascal's Wager, you don't take into account the possibility of another religion being correct while yours is wrong that can leave you equally losing, forever.

True, but you have a 1 in a few hundred chance, which (if you've ever played the lottery) is pretty decent odds compared to 0.

You do realize that this is one major reason why science is so much more sensible than religion? It doens't have a death hold on all of its claims, and will change its views once proven otherwise.

That's why there's branches of Christianity. Many branched off because they disliked the popular claims.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

You keep trying to point out what science is saying


That's because there has been a misunderstanding and outright denial of it with the use of religious belief.

In science, people based their statements on personal experiences and observances subjectively all the time (most famously "Spontaneous Generation&quot.


When someone inappropriately conducts science. As for your example it was accepted by Christianity and when the modern scientific method emerged it was debunked.

Don't you, when you commit suicide, go to hell?


I was suggesting just letting natural processes take over that result in death instead of doing things that prolong your life.
shift4101
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shift4101
196 posts
Peasant

Orly? Because it takes a whole lot of reason to believe in some magic deity and his holy book with absolutely no proof at all for it.


And that book has brought nothing but good to those who follow it to the word.

[quote]Sure, they will simply say everything they believe is 100% backed by evidence,


All of it is at least backed by something, maybe not strongly in some cases, but it's far better than something not backed at all.[/quote]

Let me ask you, what is better to believe: The story about what is inside an permanently sealed box, or a locksmith's (Who is working on a key that won't be done in your lifetime) theory?

Fail wager. What if the Muslims are right? Or Hindus? Or Buddhism? Or any other of the millions of religions out there? You're assuming that it's a 50/50 shot, when really, even if there is a correct religion, it's more of a 1/10000000 shot. And that's if any religion we currently have is even correct in the first place.


So your defense is that we will both burn in some other hell? You still lose, bud.

Why do you not believe in unicorns, or fairys or magic potatoes?


A list of answers that will upset you:

What makes you think I don't?
Because its not in the bible.
Cause I have a horn. What else could it be made of, instead of a unicorn?

Why don't you think unicorns and magic potatoes exist? Because you have never seen one? Yet.

[quote]Are you obsessed with worldly things?

No moreso than you most likely, if not less.[/quote]

And that is wrong. You don't believe in anything but the world. So how can you compare someone who believes in something outside the world, be it real or not?

I'm a 266 foot tall purple giant that lives on a giant ice cream cone in the sky and whenever I dance, it rains. Since you don't need proof, I see we're in agreement.


Its not so much proof as the lack of answers, or the vastness of bull**** ones. "How does your ice cream cone float?" "How do you stand on the clouds?" "Where were you born?" "How did you get so big?"

[quote]Why not just kill yourself and remove all the hard work that you have to do to live?


Because I don't want to? Why don't you just go piss off a muslim and have him kill you so you can get into heaven if that's what you believe?[/quote]

Because then he will go to hell. And how will I live with that guilt. Why wouldn't you want to? Seems a lot easier than pointlessly arguing with me, be it you are right. Why are you arguing with me anyways?

[quote]How can you understand anyone doing a good thing?


Because we, as a whole, decide what is right and wrong. There are certain things that we as a species have wired into us. For example, protected an infant. A random person who sees an infant in trouble will very likely have a strong urge to help, even if they have no idea who that infant is.[/quote]

You just contradicted yourself. "Because we, as a whole, decide what is right and wrong." "There are certain things as a species have wired into us." Also, there is no deciding what is right and wrong. The bible defined what God made right and wrong, and Man, with the ability to interact with eachother they have, can only tell you what they guess is right and wrong.

By being an Atheist, i'm refuting the ridiculous notion of religion and all the bull it claims, plus all the issues it causes.


So you are under the impression that somehow all religious followers are less wise, understanding, and intelligent than you, and all other atheists? Do you believe that?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

True, but you have a 1 in a few hundred chance, which (if you've ever played the lottery) is pretty decent odds compared to 0.


The odds are can be near infinite. I just want more information before playing.

That's why there's branches of Christianity. Many branched off because they disliked the popular claims.


If we were to sit a bunch of scientists in a room each with a different view on the same problem they would all eventually arrive at a single answer. Do this with religion and you will remain with different views.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famo ⦠-wrong.php


There are a number of things on that list that aren't theories, such as Fleischmann and Ponsâs Cold Fusion.
shift4101
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shift4101
196 posts
Peasant

[quote]there's a difference to someone who doesn't believe and someone who is an Atheist.


Atheist just means without belief in a deity. So what's the difference?[/quote]

The difference is you don't believe in the diety, and generally claim that atheists are smarter and Christians are somehow fooled by a book.

[quote]And what I truly don't understand about atheists, is their lack of reason.


How is it a lack of reasoning to dismiss a claim that requires faith instead of evidence?[/quote]

You obviously can't see that the evidence you obtain isn't going to help you at all.

[quote]that they cannot hope to understand how it was obtained, but they don't understand the risk involved.


The nice thing about objective evidence is that we CAN not only understand how it was obtained but (with the right time and resources) duplicate those findings.[/quote]

But you haven't found the half human-half monkey everyone is looking for. With all these humans, and all these monkeys around, where did they all go?

[quote]But if atheists are right, when we die we are both bodies in the ground or ashes in the wind, with the same chance to be remembered by the world as the next guy. But if Christians are right, Atheists lose. Forever.

Pascal's Wager, you don't take into account the possibility of another religion being correct while yours is wrong that can leave you equally losing, forever.[/quote]

I pointed this out in my above post. Your defense is that we both lose. You still lose too buddy.

[quote]So what is the reasoning behind being an atheist?

For me it's because I care about what's real or not. So long as religion and the belief in god (any god) requires faith it doesn't.

I may get other answers.[/quote]

So to feel good about yourself, like said in my post you chopped up.

[quote]Why must you be so obsessed with proof? Have you never had an impulse in your life? De Ja Vu? Is nothing in your life really without explanation?


This obsession with objective evidence is that it allows us to verify what we know is accurate to the best of our abilities.
Why don't you care about that?[/quote]

Why does what you know matter? And if you say "So we can make use of it." Why does the information beyond human history matter? What is the reason for studying it?

[quote]Why not just kill yourself and remove all the hard work that you have to do to live? How can you understand anyone doing a good thing?

Why not just let yourself die so you can get to heaven quicker? I enjoy living.[/quote]

Its a sin to commit suicide. Plus think of all the people like you I won't be able to convert. All that guilt will burden me.

[quote]True, but you have a 1 in a few hundred chance, which (if you've ever played the lottery) is pretty decent odds compared to 0.

The odds are can be near infinite. I just want more information before playing.[/quote]

Buddy, look around you. You are just a guy trying to calculate the odds of himself winning.

[quote]That's why there's branches of Christianity. Many branched off because they disliked the popular claims.


If we were to sit a bunch of scientists in a room each with a different view on the same problem they would all eventually arrive at a single answer. Do this with religion and you will remain with different views.[/quote]

Not true. If I put a bunch of people in a room, should I not get the same results? If the scientists do have some sort of knowledge that people cannot grasp, then how can you believe in it? Aren't you putting faith in those scientists? Hey, there's that world. Faith.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

You obviously can't see that the evidence you obtain isn't going to help you at all.


How will it not help?

But you haven't found the half human-half monkey everyone is looking for. With all these humans, and all these monkeys around, where did they all go?


Thus proving you are yet another creationist who dismisses evolution because you have no idea what it is or how it works.

Why does what you know matter? And if you say "So we can make use of it." Why does the information beyond human history matter? What is the reason for studying it?


For one, it lets us build things like computers. And cell phones. And keeps us alive longer. And let's us know more about what happened before. Or you could just go live in the middle of the amazon with nothing, absolutely nothing. That's what you're asking for anyways.

Buddy, look around you. You are just a guy trying to calculate the odds of himself winning.


No, we're not, because obviously, we've picked the only path that is a "no win" as you put it, so we definitely aren't searcing for the best odds. You're the one doing that.

If I put a bunch of people in a room, should I not get the same results?


No, with religion, you'd probably end up with all but one of them dead in some mini-holy war over who's right.
shift4101
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shift4101
196 posts
Peasant

[quote]But you haven't found the half human-half monkey everyone is looking for. With all these humans, and all these monkeys around, where did they all go?


Thus proving you are yet another creationist who dismisses evolution because you have no idea what it is or how it works.[/quote]

Way to make a claim.

Evolution starts with the collection of premordial stew of chemicals, and over the course of time form into not only a sequence of DNA, but into a full cell with the ability to recreate itself. (The second law of thermodynamics contradicts this) Then millions of these cells simultaneously mutated into bigger and more sophisticated creatures, eventually needing to reproduce with a different gender. After millions of these simultaneous mutations, we eventually go to land as plants and basic animals. Eventually, after thousands of small mutations, these creatures then become more diverse, and more diverse, and more diverse until you arrive at dinosaurs. Then those were wiped out somehow (*Cough NOAH's FLOOD Cough*) and mammals started to evolve rapidly. Eventually we get to monkeys and humans.

Now show me what YOU know about evolution, and tell me where the **** the half-monkeys and half-humans are.

No, we're not, because obviously, we've picked the only path that is a "no win" as you put it, so we definitely aren't searcing for the best odds. You're the one doing that.


Like it or lump it, you are playing the lottery. You are just playing for the "No prize" portion.

[quote]If I put a bunch of people in a room, should I not get the same results?


No, with religion, you'd probably end up with all but one of them dead in some mini-holy war over who's right.[/quote]

You didn't quote the whole response Makes me sad.

And that shows what you know about history.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Then millions of these cells simultaneously mutated into bigger and more sophisticated creatures,


Wrong. It wasn't simultaneously, it took billions of years to get to that point.

eventually needing to reproduce with a different gender


Not *needing* it was an efficient way at replicating its species and creating further diversity.

simultaneous mutations,


Not simultaneous.

(*Cough NOAH's FLOOD Cough*)


You don't even want to get started on how retarted the story of Noah's flood is.

and mammals started to evolve rapidly


Again, not rapidly.

tell me where the **** the half-monkeys and half-humans are.


Their species progressed into ours. Plus, it seems to me you're assuming that it goes...*Monkey->Half/half->human* which isn't correct. Small changes over generations eventually led to where we are now. The reason we aren't seeing the "halves" is because they turned into us, and we outcompeted the ones that didn't for their own niche.

Like it or lump it, you are playing the lottery. You are just playing for the "No prize" portion.


No, we stamped the, "This lottery is a load of bull" spot and opted out.

And that shows what you know about history.


You mean the ridiculous number of holy wars that took place in medieval times? I admit history isn't a strong point, but I know general things, not specific dates/all the things during those time periods.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

As for the history, here's a quick wikipedia link of some.

I'll just wait for Mage to come back, he's got a nice 60~ source thing he just copies and pastes at people who don't know what evolution is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

shift4101
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shift4101
196 posts
Peasant

[quote]Then millions of these cells simultaneously mutated into bigger and more sophisticated creatures,


Wrong. It wasn't simultaneously, it took billions of years to get to that point.[/quote]

Wrong. Wasn't talking about evoloving to man. Just to the next species.

[quote]eventually needing to reproduce with a different gender

Not *needing* it was an efficient way at replicating its species and creating further diversity.[/quote]

Wrong. If its just a different way, why aren't there still asexual mammals around? Because it was needed

[quote]simultaneous mutations,


Not simultaneous.[/quote]

Simultaneous. If an asexual thing evolves into a non-asexual thing, how will that one non-asexual thing reproduce? Thats right. They simultaneously evolved so it could reproduce.

[quote]and mammals started to evolve rapidly

Again, not rapidly.[/quote]

Not over the course of a week, dummy. That much is obvious. Just more rapidly than when they had Dino's chomping on them.

[quote]And that shows what you know about history.


You mean the ridiculous number of holy wars that took place in medieval times? I admit history isn't a strong point, but I know general things, not specific dates/all the things during those time periods.[/quote]

And do you know the circumstances in which the occured? There was nothing honestly christian about them.

No, we stamped the, "This lottery is a load of bull" spot and opted out.


Mate, you are playing the lottery. If you wanna quit, take a knife to yourself. If not, you are alive, and you will find out who was right the day you cash in your ticket. (The day you die) Or in evolutionists case, won't.
shift4101
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shift4101
196 posts
Peasant

As for the history, here's a quick wikipedia link of some.

I'll just wait for Mage to come back, he's got a nice 60~ source thing he just copies and pastes at people who don't know what evolution is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war


I would like to hear him slander what I know. Then I can rant about how ****ty evolutionists are at schooling. I pretty much just coppied my biology book.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

why aren't there still asexual mammals around? Because it was needed


Because a mammal is CLASSIFIED by male/female live birth, if it's asexual, it's not classified as a mammal. Derp.

This is what we call things that are asexual

There was nothing honestly christian about them.


On the contrary, they followed the bible quite well.

evolutionists


Isn't the term for it.

Mate, you are playing the lottery.


Lottery of what? Of whether or not there's a God? Religion has been proved so wrong so often so many times that it's ridiculous to even start to believe that they might be right. Not to mention the 40,000 different variations of Chirstianity which all claim the same sources and yet have different outcomes.
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