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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

As was the point I was trying to make.
I was just trying to give the simplest explanation of what an atheist is, being as saying what all atheists don't have (belief in a deity) is much easier than going the other way around.


the problem is that religious folk do not understand the sentence "no believe in any deity"
i usualy like to take their words and turn it against them. then to use my own words to convince them. (isn't always working well, but usualy it works great)

anyway, we agree so no need for further debate, right? =)
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

anyway, we agree so no need for further debate, right? =)

Indeed.

So you're saying that at no point in your life you did/did not do something because it was expected of your and others did so as well? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Not as of late, really. If I find something morally correct and realistic, I'll do it. If I find something morally correct and unrealistic, I might not do it and choose a more viable alternative. As long as it's moral, I'll do it.

Your neighbourhood perfectibilist is going to take a break. That means, play some League of Legends.

Farewell!

- H
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Can someone, summarize what are the Old and New Testaments, and give a comparison between the two?


Old testament (KJV) includes:
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalm, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

The New Testament includes:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation

This is in order in which they appear in the Bible, not in the order in which they were written.

Seeing as I'm running out of time I will have to cut this short and just leave you with wiki pages.
Old Testament
New Testament

Where does your moral code come from?


I will leave you with this video.
Faith-based morality gets Hitchslapped. (Christopher Hitchens)

Also, whats the point of having a moral code?


And I will leave you with this video to answer this question.
Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 29)
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

[quote] I mean....yeah I miss having some religious folk around.


You're just hungry for a good debate, nicho.

But there does seem to be an awful shortage of religious people around. Tends to make us seem a bit closed minded.
[/quote]

i know what happend.
mage snipes them down far away. they never have a chanch of coming close to us whit our machine guns and bazooka's =P
Deth666
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Deth666
653 posts
Nomad

In psychology, there's something called Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development. Theists, in the arguments they use (and by statements such as used above by you) put themselves at the first stage, aka, the most immature.


Oddly, I seem to move around the different stages. Despite me being a religious guy, none of them seems to really fit me.


And I will leave you with this video to answer this question.
Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 29)


What's good or moral is normally what benefits society? So, its not immoral for one society to murder another society as long as it benefits that society or society as a whole?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

What's good or moral is normally what benefits society? So, its not immoral for one society to murder another society as long as it benefits that society or society as a whole?


It does go further in depth on murder and does cover the disconnect we current face in such situations, asking you the question is it moral or not to kill in war?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Oddly, I seem to move around the different stages.


They don't perfectly fit everyone. They're more along just guideposts.

Despite me being a religious guy,


Religious people can be at stage 2 and 3. Their arguments, however, are the moral equivalent of the reasoning of a 3 year old.

If I do this I don't go to heaven = If I steal cookies from cookie jar I get grounded.

If I don't believe in God I will be punished in hell = If I call daddy a ***** I get spanked.
stephenking
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stephenking
2,413 posts
Nomad

Wow, I think I brought this topic back from the dead. Sweet. Anywho...

If I don't believe in God I will be punished in hell = If I call daddy a ***** I get spanked.
Perfect. Just perfect. Even though I don't get it that much.
Deth666
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Deth666
653 posts
Nomad

Religious people can be at stage 2 and 3. Their arguments, however, are the moral equivalent of the reasoning of a 3 year old.

If I do this I don't go to heaven = If I steal cookies from cookie jar I get grounded.

If I don't believe in God I will be punished in hell = If I call daddy a ***** I get spanked.



I've never done anything out of fear it would affect my going to heaven or hell. I was reading the Heinz dilemma earlier and would have stolen the radium just to screw with the druggist because I'd get a kick out of it and my wife may or may not live. I'm not sure where that actually fits. Stage 2(self interest)?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Wow, I think I brought this topic back from the dead. Sweet. Anywho...


Yeah it's a bit like a bad rash, it doesn't seem to quite go away.

I've never done anything out of fear it would affect my going to heaven or hell. I was reading the Heinz dilemma earlier and would have stolen the radium just to screw with the druggist because I'd get a kick out of it and my wife may or may not live. I'm not sure where that actually fits. Stage 2(self interest)?


Perhaps...

Reading over the dilemma myself I think I would have fallen in stages 2, 5 or 6 in this case. Likely a bit from each.
There would be self interest in seeing my wife survive. I do think a matter of survival can over rule the law in certain situations. I'm not exactly sure I would regard it as fair compensation under the situations. I do value life as being more fundamentally valuable than property.
Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,606 posts
Nomad

gotta ask, how does the trinity and christianity being monotheistic make sence to anyone? Priests cant even give a straight answer for that, last time I asked one they just told me to memorize it and remember that that's how it is.

dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

Religious people can be at stage 2 and 3. Their arguments, however, are the moral equivalent of the reasoning of a 3 year old.


0-0 A 3 year old... I mean, are most christians really like that? I understand the sucky arguments, but usally when I hear it, it's more about pleasing God. Because you owe him, he loves you, those kinds of things. I don't really think many christians think they'll go to hell. The ones with the terrible arguments believe everyone else will. Which really isn't any better. (it's kindof worse).

I'm sortof stage 6. I think he should steal the drug for his wife, but I don't think he should report hiself to the authorities afterwards. Not because he'll be caught. He's going to get caught anyways, he might as well just wait for them to come to him, and in the mean time support his wife in her recovery. I just see no reason to hand you wife some pills and tell her, "sorry, I'm leaving you. I'm gonna turn myself in so I can go to jail because I've been a bad boy." It just seems odd to me. It doesn't even seem like that much of a crime to me. If we had universal health care, he wouldn't have to steal anything. He felt like he had no choice and he did this to save someone who was very important to him. Sure, he did wrong, and should accept the punishment for it, but it's understandable why he would do this. Yeah.... That's my rational. *

*Dair5's rational is subject to change due to a more rational argument.
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

I mean....yeah I miss having some religious folk around.

You're just hungry for a good debate, nicho.


I found this quite funny.
But really, it's a little impossible when you get quoted by 20 people all asking for evidence. Not really a debate that'll happen all the time.
Deth666
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Deth666
653 posts
Nomad

Something that may be more relatable than the Heinz dilemma since I don't think anyone here has a wife dying of cancer would be the Ticking time bomb scenario. Everyone has seen some variation of it in a movie or TV show.

You have a terrorist in your custody that knows the location of a time bomb about to explode. Should you torture him to get the location of the bomb so you can disarm it?

For this I easily fall into the 4th stage. Torture him for the info and then turn myself into the police for breaking the law.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

0-0 A 3 year old... I mean, are most christians really like that? I understand the sucky arguments, but usally when I hear it, it's more about pleasing God. Because you owe him, he loves you, those kinds of things. I don't really think many christians think they'll go to hell. The ones with the terrible arguments believe everyone else will. Which really isn't any better. (it's kindof worse).


So those who think others will don't think if they too would end up in hell if they did the same things that they think will land those around them in hell? Of course there is the whole get out of hell free card that is often played through praying for forgiveness, which some how makes everything alright.

it's more about pleasing God = Daddy will be happy with me and reward me later for being a good boy/girl.
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