ForumsWEPR[necro] Ask a Muslim

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Reiki000
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Reiki000
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Nomad

Any questions about Islam, ask it here?

Greetings

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thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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i think i already did that. i can have a problem with what you believe in but that doesnt meant i have a problem with you. go back some pages. i said that already and you agreed.

Reiki000
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Reiki000
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Nomad

i think i already did that. i can have a problem with what you believe in but that doesnt meant i have a problem with you. go back some pages. i said that already and you agreed.

Everyone has his/her own opinion thebluerabbit, and I wonder what his opinion is.

Greetings
WolfWolf
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WolfWolf
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If it says in the Qur'an to take offensive onslaughts on all unbelievers who don't repent, then why not take out people like the pope, Billy Graham or other people who have huge influence over another religion? How come some Muslims take offense but others don't?

schuetteg6
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schuetteg6
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Nomad

Hey Whats the muslim religion and what does it mean?

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
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Shepherd

If it says in the Qur'an to take offensive onslaughts on all unbelievers who don't repent, then why not take out people like the pope, Billy Graham or other people who have huge influence over another religion?


Where the hell did you read that? Come on man, I want some context. You can't just believe it when somebody says 'Oh, I heard the Quran says to go bash others'

Hey Whats the muslim religion and what does it mean?


Look into it, it's a little to answer fully on one comment.
314d1
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He could be referring to:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

or

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

or

9:111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

maybe

4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

or maybe

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Really, could be a ton of things.

WolfWolf
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WolfWolf
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Where the hell did you read that?


Well there are tons of verses in the Qur'an clearly stating to kill all unbelievers who don't repent and to hate unbelievers regardless of who they are. To quote the Qur'an:

9.123: O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9.23: O you who believe! Do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.

47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

A link to other statements of the Qur'an and more.
Reiki000
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Reiki000
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314d1, have you ever read the Qur'an? Or, did you even read these chapters? No. Because if you had read it, you wouldn't place these verses here. I'll begin from 2:191 and 2:193. These verses are all out of context. Here, I'll write 2:190-195 down for you, and you will see that you're wrong.


You may fight in the cause of God against those who attack you, but do not aggress. God does not love the aggressors.

You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

If they refrain, then God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship God freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

During the Sacred Months, aggression may be met by an equivalent response. If they attack you, you may retaliate by inflicting an equitable retribution. You shall observe God and know that God is with the righteous.

You shall spend in the cause of God; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; God loves the charitable.(Qur'an 2:190-195)


It's just very clear. Attack them if they attack you, with the same power. And if they want peace, then fighting is forbidden etc. etc. This is clearly the truth, but the real question is; Can you handle the truth?

Ok, going on with 9:111. This time, you're not thinking about the verse itself.

God has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of God, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than God? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.(Qur'an 9:111)

What this verse tells is the following(according to the tafsir). God, is reffering here to the people who do everything in the name of God, such as; eating, drinking, walking, running, waiting, sleeping, helping, dressing, moving, tasting, seeing, (even)touching, smelling, hearing, thinking, reading, learning, defending and go on!

Just everything you can think about. This kind of people even imagine in the name of God. It's not just about killing. They kill, when they are allowed to. And we're allowed to kill at time of war, or when you need to defend your self etc. "God doesn't love the aggressors."

I don´t understand why you even placed 4:91. I understand you by placing other verses but this one...

You will find others who wish to make peace with you, and also with their people. However, as soon as war erupts, they fight against you. Unless these people leave you alone, offer you peace, and stop fighting you, you may fight them when you encounter them. Against these, we give you a clear authorization.(Qu'an 4:91)

And I didn't even say that it's out of context. It just clearly says, there are ones who want peace with you. But at time of war, they fight against you. Till the war ends, you can kill them when you encounter them. Look, it says encounter them, so searching them up is forbidden. Not a reason to kill.

This verse is all about war, nothing more. What's so bad about killing people at war? War its self is bad I know. The Qur'an says this too. But you must defend yourself when someone attacks you, right? Self-defence.

And at last 4:89. Out of context. 4:88 till 4:91 is about how to deal with hypocrites. I'll place 4:88 till 4:91.

Why should you divide yourselves into two groups regarding the hypocrites (among you)? God is the one who condemned them because of their own behavior. Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by God? Whomever God sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.

They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of God. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.*

Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had God willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then God gives you no excuse to fight them.

You will find others who wish to make peace with you, and also with their people. However, as soon as war erupts, they fight against you. Unless these people leave you alone, offer you peace, and stop fighting you, you may fight them when you encounter them. Against these, we give you a clear authorization.(Qur'an 4:88-91)


Note the * "The basic rule controlling all fighting is stated in 60:8-9." according to the tafsir. Now, lets see what 60:8-9 is:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers(Qur'an 60:8-9)


I think it's clearly enough.

Really, could be a ton of things.

Show these verses too then.

Greetings
Reiki000
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Reiki000
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Nomad

@WolfWolf, I'll give you an answer tommorow. I'm sorry but I don't have enough time.

Greetings

Reiki000
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Reiki000
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Nomad

Well there are tons of verses in the Qur'an clearly stating to kill all unbelievers who don't repent and to hate unbelievers regardless of who they are.

Let's begin then whit the the exapmles you gave us. 9:123

According to the tafsir, this verse is about war. It says to show the strength of us(the muslims) against the disbelievers at war.

About verse 9:5. Many people used this verse against me to &quotrove me" that Islam is not a religion of peace. But this verse, is out of context. It's in the same chapter as 9:123. Chapter 9, begins about treaties. To fight the people who break treaties. And note that it's talking about the idolators, not disbelievers(atheist etc.) or Christians, Jews etc. etc. Here is 9:1-10.

An ultimatum is herein issued from God and His messenger to the idol worshipers who enter into a treaty with you.

Therefore, roam the earth freely for four months, and know that you cannot escape from God, and that God humiliates the disbelievers.

A proclamation is herein issued from God and His messenger to all the people on the great day of pilgrimage, that God has disowned the idol worshipers, and so did His messenger. Thus, if you repent, it would be better for you. But if you turn away, then know that you can never escape from God. Promise those who disbelieve a painful retribution.

If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. God loves the righteous.

Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of God, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know.

How can the idol worshipers demand any pledge from God and from His messenger? Exempted are those who have signed a peace treaty with you at the Sacred Masjid. If they honor and uphold such a treaty, you shall uphold it as well. God loves the righteous.

How can they (demand a pledge) when they never observed any rights of kinship between you and them, nor any covenant, if they ever had a chance to prevail. They pacified you with lip service, while their hearts were in opposition, and most of them are wicked.

They traded away God's revelations for a cheap price. Consequently, they repulsed the people from His path. Miserable indeed is what they did!

They never observe any rights of kinship towards any believer, nor do they uphold their covenants; these are the real transgressors.(Qur'an 9:1-10)


I think it already explains everything.

About 9:23, the verse and the next verse are about something waaaay other than killing unbelievers or whatsover.

O you who believe, do not ally yourselves even with your parents and your siblings, if they prefer disbelieving over believing. Those among you who ally themselves with them are transgressing.

Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people.(Qur'an 9:23-24)


Since the odds are overwhelming against any human being to actually believe and devote the worship to God alone (12:103, 106), it is virtually impossible to see a whole family believe. Thus, most believers have been faced with the choice: "Either me or God and His messenger." This choice is consistently stated by spouses of the believers, or their parents, their children, etc. Consistently, the believers made the right choice. This is a mandatory test for all believers (29:2).

And at last, 47:4

If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had God willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.(Qur'an 47:4)

I'm tired of saying it the whole time but this is out of context too. The next verses explains the whole verse. Don't be too lazy to read the whole chapter, or at last the first 17 verses.

Good luck.

Greetings
Reiki000
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Reiki000
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Nomad

Today is Eid al-Adha, known as the "Festival of Sacrifice" or "Greater Eid". Eid Mubarak everyone!

MegaIPOD
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MegaIPOD
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Today is Eid al-Adha, known as the "Festival of Sacrifice" or "Greater Eid". Eid Mubarak everyone!


Khair Mubarak!
babiker
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babiker
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happy eid to all!

Ù٠عاÙ... ٠أÙتÙ... بخÙر

may you eat the fattest sheep on the planet, and have a lovely time with your family,and may god watch over you!

thepunisher93
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Eid mubarak
Glücklich eid
Blij eid
Eid felice

dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

What exactly is this holiday about? And how long does it continue for?

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