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MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
102 posts
Nomad

So, I saw a lot of threads such as "Ask a Muslim", "Ask a Jew", etc. and thought I'd make one of my own. As far as I can tell, Mormonism is one of the most widely misunderstood religions, so I thought I'd clear a few things up. Now, I'm not like a stake president or anything, but I'll do my best to answer your questions. I can't guarantee I have an answer to all of them. I would prefer it if this thread were not to turn into a religious debate. I've tried debating religion before. As far as I can tell, if you took a recording of a theist's arguments and a recording of an atheist's arguments, stuck them together and played them, you'd get approximately the same amount of actual thinking and listening as what goes into the actual debates. That's not to say atheists aren't allowed to ask questions, of course, just that I'm asking you not to turn this into a debate. I would also request that you keep this civil and polite. I will joke about my own religion sometimes, jokes are fine as long as humor, not malice, is the intent. But I will treat your beliefs with respect and expect you to do the same for mine. Thanks.
So now...go ahead and ask.

  • 158 Replies
MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
102 posts
Nomad

Oh, another thing. After death and the Resurrection, Mormons will live in the presence of the Lord as near equals, deities in our own right. I suppose this may be the source of the "Mormons think that they get their own planet" myth. As deities, we can create our own universes and edit our own afterlives just as the Lord did with ours.
You probably think that's completely ridiculous....

Avorne
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Avorne
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Nomad

You probably think that's completely ridiculous....


There, there, all religions are completely ridiculous - I promise that I don't view it as any more ridiculous than the rest of them. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up, I had always wondered about that particular part of Mormon teachings/beliefs.
MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
102 posts
Nomad

There, there, all religions are completely ridiculous - I promise that I don't view it as any more ridiculous than the rest of them.

Err...thank you?

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up, I had always wondered about that particular part of Mormon teachings/beliefs.

No problem. It's all in the Doctrine and Covenants.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Does that answer your question?


I guess so. I asked because I came across this little bit on wiki.

"Smith taught that all existence was material, including a world of "spirit matter" so fine that it was invisible to all but the purest mortal eyes. Matter, in Smith's view, could neither be created nor destroyed; the creation involved only the reorganization of existing matter."


Oh, another thing. After death and the Resurrection, Mormons will live in the presence of the Lord as near equals, deities in our own right. I suppose this may be the source of the "Mormons think that they get their own planet" myth. As deities, we can create our own universes and edit our own afterlives just as the Lord did with ours.
You probably think that's completely ridiculous....


There, there, all religions are completely ridiculous - I promise that I don't view it as any more ridiculous than the rest of them.


Ditto^
Though when I did hold theistic beliefs it's not far from what I use to believe in terms of what an afterlife was like.
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

I'm not sure where I heard it (probably in the movie "Religioulus" or in Southpark), but what is the church's view on black skin? The LDS was very long a racist organisation. Here are some examples:

Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

âNot only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.â
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)

The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:

âCain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...â
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)

According to the Book of Mormon, the church's sacred scripture, God darkens people who sin. This is the Mormon church's explanation for the color of the American Indians:

â...wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them.â
(Book of Mormon, page 61, 2 Nephi 5, verse 21)

âAnd the skins of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which WAS A CURSE upon them because of their transgression...â (Book of Mormon, page 201, Alma 3, verse 6)

â...for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a DARK, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us,...â (Book of Mormon, page 468, Mormon 5, verse 15)

The Book of Mormon, however, predicts that the Indians will repent of their sins and become white:

â...and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME PEOPLE.â
(Book of Mormon, page 102, 2 Nephi 30, verse 6. (The word "WHITE" was changed to "PURE" in later editions of the Book of Mormon))
MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
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Nomad

If I had a dollar for every person who gets their information about Mormons from South Park and/or the Book of Mormon(play)...

but what is the church's view on black skin?

Currently?
Everyone(including African Americans) is allowed to become a priest of the LDS Church, as per the revelation of 1978. Black people were allowed to become priests under Joseph Smith's leadership, but Brigham Young changed that rule. So they are considered no different from anyone else.

Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)

Firstly, I would like to point out that this book was not written by Joseph Smith, Jr., the original President of the LDS Church. It was also not written by Joseph Fielding Smith. It was written by Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr.
I haven't read the Way to Perfection, so I can't attest to the accuracy of this quote. I'm pretty sure that you haven't read it, either, just found this quote off the Internet. But I'll assume it's accurate.
When he wrote this book in 1931, Smith was an apostle, not a president. Therefore, the majority of his ideas were personal to a point(the president of the Church is a prophet, and therefore what he says is the word of the Lord). Racism was acceptable back then.

Now, be aware that this is just my opinion. As far as I know, no one has ever come right out and said this. But as for the rest: have you ever considered that the turning of the skin to a different color was not a punishment because people of other races were inferior, but because at the time, people of other races were considered inferior? So the black skin would mark them as inferiors not because people with black skin were by definition inferior, but because they were by definition considered inferior. Their punishment for the sins of the past would have been slavery and inferiority in the eyes of their peers, but by this point the Lord has obviously forgiven them. Make sense?
Somers
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Somers
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Nomad

Ive always been curious about this passage

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and ⦠says, âLet us go after other gods,â which you have not known, âand let us serve them,â you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut. 13:1-3

I believe St.Paul actually mentions other books as well in revelations, which makes me wonder, Is the book of mormon really an add on the bible? And why was it discovered so late? What happened to all those before mormonism?
CalvinKidd137
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CalvinKidd137
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Nomad

Is the book of mormon really an add on the bible?

According to what definition being an add on?
And why was it discovered so late?

What do you mean by late? The entire point was for Joseph Smith Jr. to discover the gold plates in the hill Cumorah.
Somers
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Somers
1,532 posts
Nomad

According to what definition being an add on?


Another testament? my bad, thats what i meant

What do you mean by late? The entire point was for Joseph Smith Jr. to discover the gold plates in the hill Cumorah.


Mormonism is one of the youngest religions. Im curious as to why god would want him to discover it so late in time, i know you cant answer that, but its something to think about. If it truly is the correct religion afterall
KineticNinja
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KineticNinja
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Nomad

[url=http://mormon.org/]

If anybody was actually wanting to learn about it, then they should just go to that link

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Fixed your link for you

To do links, you would do this

{url=http://mormon.org}Fixed your link for you{/url} except with [ and ]

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Another testament? my bad, thats what i meant


From my understanding it's more of a retcon.

No One Ever Saw the Plates: That is just completely untrue. Joseph Smith showed the Plates to eleven people, and they swore as much, as detailed in the Testimony of the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses.


Going back a bit here.
I thought the witnesses saw this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/JosephSmithTranslating.jpg
Just him sitting there translating the plates by looking into a hat, not the plates them self. Even this much as far as I know parts were done in behind curtains or in secret.

If I'm wrong about this can you point me to where it says they saw them?
MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
102 posts
Nomad

Mormonism is one of the youngest religions. Im curious as to why god would want him to discover it so late in time, i know you cant answer that, but its something to think about. If it truly is the correct religion afterall

I suppose it's because Joseph Smith was the prophet for the Plates, and Joseph Smith lived then in time.

If anybody was actually wanting to learn about it, then they should just go to that link

If you have a specific question, it would be easier just to ask than it would be to dig through the whole site for one thing.

Just him sitting there translating the plates by looking into a hat, not the plates them self. Even this much as far as I know parts were done in behind curtains or in secret.

Another common misconception.

If I'm wrong about this can you point me to where it says they saw them?

Sure. It's in the Testimony of Three Witnesses and the Testimony of Eight Witnesses. I'll even quote them for you verbatim from the Book of Mormon.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this works hall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have been shown the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon, and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the word of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
-Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Martin Harris.

The Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
-Christian Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith, Sr., Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jr., John Whitmer, Hyrum Smith, Samuel H. Smith.
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

the president of the Church is a prophet, and therefore what he says is the word of the Lord

How do you become a president of the Church and therefore a prophet? Do you get voted by a commitee or by the last president?
And why is it the word of God if you're the president but it isn't if you aren't president yet?

Racism was acceptable back then.

Is it even acceptable if you're a (future) prophet?

Now, be aware that this is just my opinion. As far as I know, no one has ever come right out and said this. But as for the rest: have you ever considered that the turning of the skin to a different color was not a punishment because people of other races were inferior, but because at the time, people of other races were considered inferior? So the black skin would mark them as inferiors not because people with black skin were by definition inferior, but because they were by definition considered inferior. Their punishment for the sins of the past would have been slavery and inferiority in the eyes of their peers, but by this point the Lord has obviously forgiven them. Make sense?

A little bit. I got to think about this again^^

btw I remembered where I heard this, it was in the movie
Religioulus by Bill Maher. They also say other things, maybe they are incorrect, so you can correct me:

God, the Father, who is a physical man with a body of flesh and bones, probably about 6 feet tall, lives at a place called Kolob, had a sexual relation with Mary - remember he's a man

Dark sin is a curse from God, but if you're sufficiently righteous, dark skin persons can become light skin

After his resurrection Jesus came to the America to preach to the Indians

American Indians are a lost tribe of Israel

The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. The new Jerusalem will be there

The Mormon church baptizes dead people (e.g. Joan of Arc, Buddha, Anne Frank, Adolph Hitler, Josef Stalin, Genghis Kan)

Caffeine is evil

Temple garments protect you from: fire, knives, bullets, Satan.

They [the Mormons] give you a secret password to get into heaven


And last but not least they say the moment you leave the church you commit social suicide.

I know it's pretty much but maybe you'll find the time to answer it (you don't have to answer all the things at the same time).
MostlyToastly
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MostlyToastly
102 posts
Nomad

btw I remembered where I heard this, it was in the movie Religioulus by Bill Maher. They also say other things, maybe they are incorrect, so you can correct me:

You might as well take your knowledge of the Catholic Church from the Penn & Teller episode about the Vatican.


God, the Father, who is a physical man with a body of flesh and bones, probably about 6 feet tall,

I'm not sure where you got the height from, but the other part is true.
Doctrine and Covenants, Chapter 130, Verse 22: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

lives at a place called Kolob

The Lord does not live at Kolob, but Kolob is the closest celestial body to the residence of the Lord. I can see how you might have gotten that mixed up.

, had a sexual relation with Mary - remember he's a man

The LDS Church is divided on this issue. I can't really deliver a verdict here.


Dark sin is a curse from God,

This is technically true. The Lord marked the Lamanites with dark skin to punish them for their wickedness, but the Lamanites' descendants have been forgiven, so now dark skin is just as acceptable as any other color.

but if you're sufficiently righteous, dark skin persons can become light skin

Your soul would appear pure and bright in heaven if you were righteous in your life. I'm not sure if that means your skin.

After his resurrection Jesus came to the America to preach to the Indians

Jesus was resurrected in the Americas and brought an era of peace to the warring Lamanites and Nephites. He did not come to the Americas to preach, but he was here for a short time.

The Garden of Eden was in Missouri.

Yes

The new Jerusalem will be there

Sort of. Zion is expected to be in Missouri, but it could be anywhere.

American Indians are a lost tribe of Israel

No. We believe in the lost tribes of Israel, but they are not Native Americans. They remained among the Jews in Israel, and eventually spread throughout the world.

The Mormon church baptizes dead people (e.g. Joan of Arc, Buddha, Anne Frank, Adolph Hitler, Josef Stalin, Genghis Kan)

We do perform baptisms of the dead, but not for those you've listed.

Caffeine is evil

Well...sort of. That's an extreme exaggeration, but I can see where it comes from. We are not allowed to drink strong drinks, hot caffeine drinks such as coffee are included in that, but we don't believe that they are evil.
Here's the food stuff in the Word of Wisdom.
No wine or strong drink, with the exception of the pure, sacred wine used in Sacrament. "Strong drink" includes most drinks with caffeine such as coffee.
No tobacco or drugs, unless used for medicinal purposes.
Meat is to be eaten sparingly, we should respect the lives of other animals.
Eat lots of fruits, vegetables, and grains.
According to the Divine Promise at the end of the Word of Wisdom, people who follow these things will be blessed with divine health and wisdom.


Temple garments protect you from: fire, knives, bullets, Satan.

No; no; no; in a way.
Temple garments are a reminder of the covenants taken in the Endowment. They are sometimes seen as protection against temptations and evil because they remind you of your loyalty to the LDS Church. Once you have been Endowed, you must wear garments at all times except for certain activities in which you cannot wear garments underneath the normal clothes, such as swimming. After you complete these activities, you are to put the garments back on immediately. You are allowed to wash them, so you would normally keep a few pairs of sacred garments on hand so you can switch out when you're washing one.
That one is just plain ridiculous...I have no idea where they got the protection against fire/bullets/knives thing from, unless they were just making stuff up. -.-

They [the Mormons] give you a secret password to get into heaven

Sort of. The highest members of the church possess a spiritual key type of thing(I'm not quite sure what it is, it's a secret thing) so they can gain access to the highest levels of heaven. Anyone can enter heaven, no matter their religious beliefs. Mormons live in the presence of the Lord as deities in their own right: non-Mormons are punished or rewarded in heaven according to the deeds in their life(good people are rewarded, evil people are punished).

Whew, that took a while.
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