I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
Same old "death" aspect? You were already told that fleshly death is inevitable, and you are not to judge whether God is right when someone gets killed by anything. This argument is void, drop this already.
No it's not void. It's stated that the causes of those Deaths are because of God. This immunity to criticism argument is a complete load.
No it's not void. It's stated that the causes of those Deaths are because of God. This immunity to criticism argument is a complete load.
Christianity states that the body is not needed for eternal life, which is the goal for everyone. Therefore let them bodies die for whatever reason, while the soul lives the human lives. This in turn means that we have different meaning of the word "death" in operation, you meaning that with the death of the body the human is void, me meaning that the soul remains and lives forever with God. So, from a Christian viewpoint, your argument IS void.
How do I quote people? Anyway, that's not my point. I never said Hitler was a Christian. In this context, he is used as a comparison with God.This isn't important. Really, I am not referring to the amount of people God killed as the basis of my argument. I am referring to his "evil". For example, let us define evil as the amount of pain caused to another. Killing someone quickly with a flood is not the same as killing someone with firecrackers and a leg of chicken, say, if you were imaginative in a sadistic way. Torturing someone, even ****, could be considered a larger evil than shooting someone in the head mercilessly for the simple fact that they must live with these memories. This is a "finite" evil, with "finite" statistics. When I mention God as being evil, I DO NOT refer to the fact that he killed 25 million people, nor the fact that he does this mainly because the people he kills are a taint to his loyalty. I refer to the fact that God causes an "infinite" amount of pain,, through the endless tortures one must suffer in hell. Let us contemplate. If there really is an afterlife in Christianity, where then must the 2 million + people he killed fit in? In heaven? Obviously not, as this contradicts the reasons for killing them in the first place. This must mean then, they go to hell, where infinite pain and tortures await 2 million + people. Dictating whether or not this is deserved: These people could only create a finite amount of evil within their lifetimes. By condemning them to infinite punishment, is this really just?
interesting. You should then measure "good" part of God, if you measure evil that "God causes", with "good" defined as amount of joy delivered to one's soul. This will end up infinitely more than your "evil" measure, take Heaven and your and everyone else's life. I wonder also, are you aware of what Christianity speaks about why people end up in Hell? If yes, please cite. If no, then please listen - people end up in Hell if they commit sins and do not repent them and do not ask God for forgiveness. And it's their sins that give them pain in Hell, not God. God would like to remove the pain, but the sinned and unrepented soul does not accept God as that soul's redeemer, therefore it remains in a pitiful state of Hell.
Now, there is another questionable aspect. How come you define what's good and what's evil? It's not you who should decide that. Not me as well. This means that your "calculation" of "God's evil" may be terribly wrong. And, why do you say that those sould whose bodies get killed in the flood have ended up in Hell? They might not end up in Heaven, but there's another state they could be in, that is Purgatory. So your argument of "They go to Hell, where pain is eternal" is based on a wrong assumption.
(PS: how to quote. You copy a part of someone's post, paste it in reply window, then select it all and press "Quote" button above the text area. This will make the selected text bracketed in "quote" BB tag. Then you write your reply after the closing bracket of the closing tag.)
How do I quote people? Anyway, that's not my point. I never said Hitler was a Christian. In this context, he is used as a comparison with God.This isn't important. Really, I am not referring to the amount of people God killed as the basis of my argument. I am referring to his "evil". For example, let us define evil as the amount of pain caused to another. Killing someone quickly with a flood is not the same as killing someone with firecrackers and a leg of chicken, say, if you were imaginative in a sadistic way. Torturing someone, even ****, could be considered a larger evil than shooting someone in the head mercilessly for the simple fact that they must live with these memories. This is a "finite" evil, with "finite" statistics. When I mention God as being evil, I DO NOT refer to the fact that he killed 25 million people, nor the fact that he does this mainly because the people he kills are a taint to his loyalty. I refer to the fact that God causes an "infinite" amount of pain,, through the endless tortures one must suffer in hell. Let us contemplate. If there really is an afterlife in Christianity, where then must the 2 million + people he killed fit in? In heaven? Obviously not, as this contradicts the reasons for killing them in the first place. This must mean then, they go to hell, where infinite pain and tortures await 2 million + people. Dictating whether or not this is deserved: These people could only create a finite amount of evil within their lifetimes. By condemning them to infinite punishment, is this really just?
Your probably going to counter this but im saying it anywways. The devil is at war with God, the Devil tries to make every one go against God, God has to kill the sinners because they did what the devil loves (sin) and they chose to praise him.
Christianity states that the body is not needed for eternal life, which is the goal for everyone. Therefore let them bodies die for whatever reason, while the soul lives the human lives.
By your logic murder is a gift because then they go to heaven if they've lead a virtuous life.
if you measure evil that "God causes", with "good" defined as amount of joy delivered to one's soul. This will end up infinitely more than your "evil"
No, it would not. It would end up more evil than good, and even IF you go more good than evil, lets look at it this way.
A serial murder/rapist gives away some money to charity and sometimes works in a soup kitchen. Does this make them a good person? No, they are still bad for being a serial murderer/rapist and no amount of charity is going to change that.
Your probably going to counter this but im saying it anywways. The devil is at war with God, the Devil tries to make every one go against God, God has to kill the sinners because they did what the devil loves (sin) and they chose to praise him.
Hey there, not so fast. God loves the sinners and washes them from their sins, since he's all-loving and knows they can't be blamed for what the devil does. Also the devil is a kinda necessary counterpart to god, the devil is part of gods plans and couldn't win anyway, since god is all-powerful.
At least this is what I would say if I was a christian...
Hey there, not so fast. God loves the sinners and washes them from their sins, since he's all-loving and knows they can't be blamed for what the devil does. Also the devil is a kinda necessary counterpart to god, the devil is part of gods plans and couldn't win anyway, since god is all-powerful. At least this is what I would say if I was a christian...
Look I now that but these people are from the old testement they turned from God he warns them they dont listen so he sends army, storm, earthquake,etc. As punishment for disobeying. While they are disobeying the are praising the devil so God sends down punishment upon them.In the new testement he gave us the chance to attone for our sins by sending him on the cross. We then had more freewill he nolonger punished us on earth because we can ask for forgiveness. WE could ask Jesus to come into our heart and life. God is watching us and guiding us we just have to choose to be guided by him. I think I just went off topic so i'm gonna stop.
Ok, just a few comments. First, something puzzles me:
While they are disobeying the are praising the devil so God sends down punishment upon them.
By that, do you mean "they are disobeying god and praising the devil" or "they are disobeying god, thus praising the devil"? And please don't say that it's the same...
In the new testement he gave us the chance to attone for our sins by sending him on the cross.
Why then didn't he do so already in the old testament instead of simply show his warning finger?
We then had more freewill he nolonger punished us on earth because we can ask for forgiveness.
More free will? Can ask for forgiveness? Could those in the OT not ask for forgiveness? 0.o
God is watching us and guiding us we just have to choose to be guided by him.
He should also be there even if one goes his own way. Doesn't mean it has to be a bad way. And, somehow, hoping to be led by god will focus yourself on being led by god, thus making it more easy to convince yourself that he's here, purely psychologically speaking. Don't you think this is problematic? (You probably won't if you believe, but try to think without bias here).
I think I just went off topic so i'm gonna stop.
Didn't follow the recent line of topics, but it's about christianity and I have questions, so I think it's ok
Look I now that but these people are from the old testement they turned from God he warns them they dont listen so he sends army, storm, earthquake,etc. As punishment for disobeying.
Not all of them were. Some of them got "unished" by proxy. For example the first borns int he Moses narratives. But even then your still being forced to justify something that in any other case would be regarded as an evil act, it's only being excused because it was God doing that act. Whether it be the old or new testament makes no difference.
While they are disobeying the are praising the devil so God sends down punishment upon them.
This is completely ridiculous. It's like saying just because someone committed a hate crime against a black person they support the KKK. To say that all evil is the Devils fault just comes off as scapegoating. (something that seems to be heavily supported in this twisted belief system)
I think I just went off topic so i'm gonna stop.
No all you did was just start preaching. Likely just going on automatic and rehashing what you have heard.
Kasic, has this person changed and is regretful? Or do they have an alternate motive?
In my example the person was still a serial rapist/murderer whilst working in his free time at charities and what not.
As punishment for disobeying
Again...FREE WILL. God CANNOT claim that we have free will and them superimpose rules and morals on us or force us to do something on threat of ETERNAL PUNISHMENT! This is the equivilant to a psychotic dictator saying you may speak your mind and then shooting you in each foot, each hand, the stomach and then pistol whipping you to death!
While they are disobeying the are praising the devil so God sends down punishment upon them.
I think what he was saying was they were disobeying god by praising the devil. If they killed somebody like cain did, then they couldn't be forgiven no matter how much they repent. for murder is the only unpardonable sin.
in the story of noahs ark, they were praising the devil and so god destroyed them, but you are forgetting that noah warned them to repent or they would get destroyed. little did you know, they gave them roughly 120years to repent, but they still didn't. thus god punished them for their wickedness.
Again...FREE WILL. God CANNOT claim that we have free will and them superimpose rules and morals on us or force us to do something on threat of ETERNAL PUNISHMENT! This is the equivilant to a psychotic dictator saying you may speak your mind and then shooting you in each foot, each hand, the stomach and then pistol whipping you to death!
sigh, this is probably one of the harder ones to explain. God does give us free will, he says you can choose the right and get rewarded, or choose the wrong and get punished. In the LDS, he punishes/rewards us today by placing us in one of the three kingdoms based on how we lived our lives. I say it's a reward because the better the kingdom, the closer to god we are, its a punishment by how far from god we are.
Remember, we can't look into the mind of god, so we can't know why he killed so many in the first place. but like I said, he doesn't (at least not that I've seen) smite anybody these days. we should just be glad we don't live in that era any more. from what I could tell, he punished them only after he gave them ample time and warning. only rarely does it say he didn't give people warning and time to repent.
God does give us free will, he says you can choose the right and get rewarded, or choose the wrong and get punished
That is not free will. Free will is the ability to decide for yourself without threat of punishment.
If I give you the "option" to give me all your money or I shoot you, you "could" refuse, but really? That's not a choice. This is what god is doing according to religion. He is holding the proverbial gun to our heads and saying we can choose.
so we can't know why he killed so many in the first place.
List of options.
1) He's an *******. 2) He's a conceited self righteous ******* that does not deserve to be worshiped due to his many evil acts. 3) He is not real and we just use his name as an excuse to commit violence.
he doesn't (at least not that I've seen) smite anybody these days.
Haha, funny...just like how we no longer see demons or witches anymore...I wonder why that is? Because we've left behind those outdated superstitious and quit obviously false beliefs? Why can we not do so readily the same with religion?
