I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
I find it interesting how well that compares to God.
I'm sure when you meet him you can tell him that little joke as well.
If I give you the "option" to give me all your money or I shoot you, you "could" refuse, but really? That's not a choice. This is what god is doing according to religion. He is holding the proverbial gun to our heads and saying we can choose.
like I said, it's harder to explain. I guess a better analogy is like a job. the more you work, the better the payoff is. does that seem as bad as the gun? thought so.
Haha, funny...just like how we no longer see demons or witches anymore...I wonder why that is? Because we've left behind those outdated superstitious and quit obviously false beliefs? Why can we not do so readily the same with religion?
oh that's nice, an allusion to the salem witch trials. besides, that last part is easier said than done. I'd rather live in ignorance as a christian because your "truth" is way too bleak for me. it's more like a safety net, if you believe and live life well enough, you get rewarded. if you end up rotting in the ground, then no harm done.
@kasic let me ask you this. why would you believe in something so bleak? it's not like you will get anything out of it, other than seeing the people who do believe get crushed when you go on a campaign to prove how they are idiots for believing.
would you like to know why I'm still a cristian, even after all these talks with you guys? it's the feeling you get when you know there is good in the world. it isn't supposed to be logical. if it was, then I as a christian can easily tell you the material compostion of god himself.
the "truth" may set you free, but what if the free world was a bitter and harsh place? would you still want to live there?
it's the feeling you get when you know there is good in the world. it isn't supposed to be logical. if it was, then I as a christian can easily tell you the material compostion of god himself.
I'm guessing you don't realize how inaccurate feelings can be when it come to determining reality. If you do and continue to use this as a mean of determining God is real then you are simply lying to yourself. In other words just because it might feel good to you to think God exists is completely meaningless.
the "truth" may set you free, but what if the free world was a bitter and harsh place? would you still want to live there?
Yes I would rather live there where I can try to make a difference rather then pretend everything was sunshine and farts smelled like Cinnamon biscuits.
"I would rather be right, than happy" Especially when that happiness was a false one.
let me ask you this. why would you believe in something so bleak?
People always call me a pessimest. The truth is...I just look at things how they are. What good does it do to imagine fluffy unicorn land? Sure it might make you happy, but it's not real. I think that knowing the truth is important regardless of whether or not it is bleak.
it's not like you will get anything out of it,
Should I only do things that get me something? Should I only believe what has the greatest personal benefits for me? I think that's the moral reasoning of a 2 year old.
other than seeing the people who do believe get crushed when you go on a campaign to prove how they are idiots for believing.
That is not my goal. I understand full well that people have beliefs that comfort them and make them feel safe, and that's fine.
My reason for arguing against religion is simple. It can hurt others and those withen a religion. If you're so deluded that you really believe that in a spot of trouble you can just pray and be saved, you need a wake up. If you really believe that you should force people to be straight, despite there being no harm to you in any way, then you need to get a wake up call. I have never brought up the subject of religion with the intention of just trying to disprove those who hold these beliefs solely to see the crushed looks on their faces when they struggle to answer simple questions.
it's the feeling you get when you know there is good in the world.
And that's fine.
but what if the free world was a bitter and harsh place?
The world is what it is, no wishing or praying otherwise is going to change that. Only us changing our actions will change how the world is. Look around, all these wars past and present caused by religion. Bigotry, hatred, ignorance, discrimination, slavery, and so many more things have all been caused by religion over the years. I truly have no problem with people believing in a religion. But, again, when they try to force their beliefs on others and pass laws according solely to their beliefs, something needs to be done about that.
oh that's nice, an allusion to the salem witch trials
Actually I wasn't alluding to the Salem Witch trials, I was just listing the first things that came to mind which were once widely believed in but are now almost universally accepted as fairy tales.
By your logic murder is a gift because then they go to heaven if they've lead a virtuous life.
You seem to have a perverted logic. God said "Thou shalt not kill." This means murder is a sin. Also, you never know if a person you're about to kill will end up in Heaven or Hell, or Purgatory in this case. So if by your action a soul ends up in Hell, you have just doomed a soul, by not allowing it to repent its sins.
No, it would not. It would end up more evil than good, and even IF you go more good than evil, lets look at it this way.
Oh yeah? You seem to miss a greater part of what is life. Every single beautiful object that gives us momentary joy is included in "good" done by God, as it's not us who made this happen. Also, do check your definitions of what is death.
Hey there, not so fast. God loves the sinners and washes them from their sins, since he's all-loving and knows they can't be blamed for what the devil does. Also the devil is a kinda necessary counterpart to god, the devil is part of gods plans and couldn't win anyway, since god is all-powerful.
Hmmmm. You miss personal involvement of a sinner in his sins. Devil does temptations, maybe more, but if a person acts by his free will and does sins, that person can be blamed for this action. Also, yes God needs devil to be around for a certain time, indeed, and in Revelations it's said that the devil will be given more power in the last times, and people will suffer. But devil is not a counterpart, as he's not as powerful as God, but since he's still here, he's necessary... right.
By that, do you mean "they are disobeying god and praising the devil" or "they are disobeying god, thus praising the devil"? And please don't say that it's the same...
The latter, I think.
If you're so deluded that you really believe that in a spot of trouble you can just pray and be saved, you need a wake up.
If you're so deluded that you really believe all of the universe is a random action, you need a wake up. Reasonless? As good as yours.
If you really believe that you should force people to be straight, despite there being no harm to you in any way, then you need to get a wake up call.
Well, let 'em, they don't reproduce anyway, but those that are homosexual should NOT put this in public as well, as they are harming ME by this.
Look around, all these wars past and present caused by religion.
LOL. You should take history lessons.
Bigotry, hatred, ignorance, discrimination, slavery, and so many more things have all been caused by religion over the years.
Another LOL, however there is more truth in this phrase than in the previous one. At least slavery was not caused by religion, it was caused by mere expansion of tribes and empires, who have eventually found that having a conquered human as a slave is better than just another clump of meat.
You seem to miss a greater part of what is life. Every single beautiful object that gives us momentary joy is included in "good" done by God, as it's not us who made this happen.
Bull ****. Even if you're going to argue this, you can only use nature for that. Art, buildings, everything that "We" have made was not made by god.
since he's still here, he's necessary...
So it's necessary for God to allow evil to exist? That's like putting a hose in an ant hill and saying, "It's necessary for these ants to learn to swim"
If you're so deluded that you really believe all of the universe is a random action, you need a wake up.
Do you mean the universe itself existing, or the actions that happen withen it, or both?
as they are harming ME by this.
LOL. And how, exactly, is this? They make you uncomfortable? What happens when you see people eating things you don't like? They're doing something you yourself wouldn't do, yet you don't call them sinners.
LOL. You should take history lessons.
...seriously? The majority of all wars have been caused by religion or have had a religious influence to them.
...seriously? The majority of all wars have been caused by religion or have had a religious influence to them.
Seriously. Or you should learn to differ between "some", "most" and "all".
LOL. And how, exactly, is this? They make you uncomfortable? What happens when you see people eating things you don't like? They're doing something you yourself wouldn't do, yet you don't call them sinners.
Fallacy of analogy. Those homos don't have sex in public, do they? And if someone would do, even if would be "straight" aka normal sex, they'll be charged with offensive behavior. Eating in public is no crime. If someone would eat something I'll never try to eat, they won't offend me at all, if that food's smell will offend me, I will either tolerate this or increase distance. About sinners - sure I do call them sinners, as all people are sinners, me and you included, I just don't say that they sin or speak about sins.
Do you mean the universe itself existing, or the actions that happen withen it, or both?
All three, as these words describe different aspects of the universe.
What exactly is the importance of knowing how life ends? Knowing something just to know something makes the knowledge worth nothing. Its only worth something if you do something with it.
What exactly is the importance of knowing how life ends? Knowing something just to know something makes the knowledge worth nothing. Its only worth something if you do something with it.
What exactly is the importance of knowing how life ends? Knowing something just to know something makes the knowledge worth nothing. Its only worth something if you do something with it.
the fact is, if you knew how life ends, you can decide how to live life. if you found that christianity was right and there was a heaven then you would basically be and act the saint. if there was no god, then you wouldn't be bound by any rules and could do all the sex and blow you want. that's why it's important to know. life is fleeting, and if you knew how it ends, you could decide how to live life to the fullest.
Seriously. Or you should learn to differ between "some", "most" and "all".
You're avoiding the real answer here. Majority ALWAYS means 50.00000001% or more. That's not a small figure by any means. How can you possibly claim that something is good when it has caused over half of the worlds conflicts?
Fallacy of analogy
No, its not. The analogy was whether people doing something you wouldn't should be illegal. Just because something makes -you- uncomfortable because of your beliefs does not mean that a person should be denied a right given to everyone else.
All three, as these words describe different aspects of the universe.
I can't debate with you on this topic then, because you are unwilling/unable to not attribute everything to god and since we can not definitively prove/disprove god, a pointless topic.
If you're going to just blindly believe that everything is the will of god, everything caused and created by god, every action watched by god, and that god can do no evil no matter what, there is no point for you to debate here.
the fact is, if you knew how life ends, you can decide how to live life. if you found that christianity was right and there was a heaven then you would basically be and act the saint. if there was no god, then you wouldn't be bound by any rules and could do all the sex and blow you want. that's why it's important to know. life is fleeting, and if you knew how it ends, you could decide how to live life to the fullest.
I suppose so. I can understand if others want to live their lives based on what happens after their deaths. But if nothing happens then there is no problem right? You can just live your life the way you like to.
I suppose so. I can understand if others want to live their lives based on what happens after their deaths. But if nothing happens then there is no problem right? You can just live your life the way you like to.
but the problem is what happens if you squandered life, and there is a god. if that is the case, then you would be screwed and you have nobody to blame but yourself for it.
but the problem is what happens if you squandered life, and there is a god. if that is the case, then you would be screwed and you have nobody to blame but yourself for it.
What do you mean squandered life? Can you give an exmple please?
Hmm example..killing someone while driving under influence with no license, running away from the crime scene, getting caught and sentenced to death on your 18th birthday. Far strung, but I could bet it happened to someone. Now if you land before God after something like that and say "Who cares, that was fun!"..well I wouldn't want to be God at that point, but still not as much as being that person.
