Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism

Okay. You know I'm almost sure atheism had nothing to do with them turning to drugs. I guess it's possible that if the devote christian had stayed a devote christian he might have felt guilty, but thats probably it. His morals are the same with or without christianity. Do you know if their friends encouraged them to try it? Or maybe how they got involved. Oh, and sorry to hear that happened. It must be rough to deal with.

trust me when I say it really breaks your heart to see a member of your family, who you have looked up to for so long, fall as hard as my brother did. he didn't do drugs before he became an atheist, he told me that himself (he's a closet one, for if my mom knew it would break her heart), he said he started when he became just a little too stressed out durring the SATs last year. there was peer pressure involved with two of them, but the rest just out of nowhere started taking drugs.

I also can tell you that his morals are much different now than when he was a devoted christian. still not sure what prompted the change.

atheists don't believe in religion

Bzzrt. Wrong. Atheism is not having a belief in a Deity. End of story. You can have religious Atheists.

there is a select few that believe that it is their responsibility to denounce and prove religion as false.

If someone was going around selling cheap vaccuums and you knew that they were a scam, would you not inform other people about it?

I also can tell you that his morals are much different now than when he was a devoted christian. still not sure what prompted the change.

Well at-least his morals are not twisted.

Okay. You know I'm almost sure atheism had nothing to do with them turning to drugs.

Correct. Most of the reasons why some newly atheists (teens usually) turn to drugs is because some of them can't handle everyone being an ******* to them. I mean if you see your friends and family turn against you just because you believe in something else don't you think it could lead to depression? And depression sometimes end ups with drugs.

I would say no. I don't do good because I fear God. I have absoultly no fear for God. I have respect and love for God. And the reason I do good is because I like seeing people happy and don't like to see them sad. Besides, morality doesn't come from God. This is seen in atheists and christians alike.

I do agree in your case, and in most moderate religious person. But if you take Islam for an example, you can clearly see that the Qu'ran states that you have to fear god.

Correct. Most of the reasons why some newly atheists (teens usually) turn to drugs is because some of them can't handle everyone being an ******* to them. I mean if you see your friends and family turn against you just because you believe in something else don't you think it could lead to depression? And depression sometimes end ups with drugs.

but that's the thing, nobody knew but me. I was told him i was fine with him being an atheist, but he still did drugs. so wouldn't that statement of yours be debunked?

I was told him i was fine with him being an atheist, but he still did drugs. so wouldn't that statement of yours be debunked?

Have you ever asked him why he does drugs?

Everyone is different and has their own reasons.

but that's the thing, nobody knew but me. I was told him i was fine with him being an atheist, but he still did drugs. so wouldn't that statement of yours be debunked?

(he's a closet one, for if my mom knew it would break her heart)

That second quote could be part of it. If you knew it would hurt someone like that it might still lead to depression.

there is a select few that believe that it is their responsibility to denounce and prove religion as false. he just happens to be one of those guys.

Don't think I would call it a sense of responsibility.

When the brains waves stop.

Ok, this is death of the body and the brain. If you cease existing at this point, let others persist beyond. The Gospel says: "But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him." (Lk 20:37-38, or Mt 22:32). So, for God Abraham is alive, while his body and brain are long dead. So your meaning of "death" is not the same as God's, so you cannot accuse God for killing. It's also said "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Mt 10:28). So it's an illegal deed for us to kill the body, as we cannot kill someone else's soul, while the true entity of a human is in his soul, not in the body, so why are you saying "God kills" while it's only the bodies that die, as they should die anyway?

You're avoiding the real answer here. Majority ALWAYS means 50.00000001% or more. That's not a small figure by any means. How can you possibly claim that something is good when it has caused over half of the worlds conflicts?

You're overreacting at the very least, and are utterly wrong at the most. How many conflicts are worthy of the name "war" that have happened after 150,000 BC? And how many were caused by religion, and what religion was that in EACH CASE? Can you give me an exact answer? I think no. You have said "all these wars past and present caused by religion.". Now you weasel out of your own words, saying "majority". Now I can show you that you cannot even say "majority" as you don't know how many were there in the first place. SOME of the wars (at least one, namely first crusade) were caused by religion, indeed, but many were caused by the lack of food, personal ambitions, resources control, etc.

If you're going to just blindly believe that everything is the will of god, everything caused and created by god, every action watched by god, and that god can do no evil no matter what, there is no point for you to debate here.

No, I'm not going to "blindly believe" all of what you said right here, especially in your set of meanings for "everything", "evil", "god". I have already said that a human CAN act against God's will in the minor scale (it can be as small as an event petween two people, or an event that can cause a collapse of the entire society), and he then takes responsibility for that action. And you are not a person to tell me where should I debate, and how.

the fact is, if you knew how life ends, you can decide how to live life. if you found that christianity was right and there was a heaven then you would basically be and act the saint. if there was no god, then you wouldn't be bound by any rules and could do all the sex and blow you want. that's why it's important to know. life is fleeting, and if you knew how it ends, you could decide how to live life to the fullest.

Hmm. The main trouble with this is "no one ever returned from the other side", at least bodily, so everyone could approach that person, touch him, speak with him, etc etc, and all the other apparitions are unverifiable, because they cannot be repeated by the will of us. So anything that's said by those apparitions, even if confirming the view of life and death by any of the religions, can only be believed in, not tested. Atheists require cast-iron proof, "or else" they go at their own will. Pitiful.

Are religious people only good because they are afraid of punishment? This would place them at the first level of development

Some remain at this level, some go a lot higher. Actually, Jesus said "Love each other as you love yourself", which seems to be a principle of the highest level in that link. So we have an example to follow, which leads to the higher society as well as Heaven.

Besides, morality doesn't come from God. This is seen in atheists and christians alike.

Are you sure? Morality comes from upbringing, which comes from society, which is established by religious norms along with everything else, and God gave that norms. Christianity did a very good job at spreading its basic norms across the entire world, although not every society uses its entire spectre of norms available. At least "Don't kill humans" is accepted into every society by now.

If someone was going around selling cheap vaccuums and you knew that they were a scam, would you not inform other people about it?

so, you KNOW there's no God? If yes, you have to prove this. If not, stay in line.

Don't think I would call it a sense of responsibility.

Unfortunately, there are some who feel responsible for this. You are probably a devoted skeptic, as you say you seek for flaws anywhere in general, and this is normal.

The Gospel says:

The Gospel is not valid evidence.

so you cannot accuse God for killing.

Fine. Have it your way. Murder does note exist. All those peolpe charged for it should be released from prison, since obviously "death" isn't the end, thus you did no crime.
Kind of makes you wonder why God said, "Thou shalt not kill" though, if you can't do it anyways.

How many conflicts are worthy of the name "war" that have happened after 150,000 BC? And how many were caused by religion, and what religion was that in EACH CASE? Can you give me an exact answer?

No, I could not, as all are not documented. It would take more than a lifetime of research in multiple fields in order to find even an estimate. That's how many there have been.

but many were caused by the lack of food, personal ambitions, resources control, etc.

You accuse me of "weasel-ing" my way out with ambiguous words and then go on to use "many" instead of giving an example? Yes there have been wars caused by these, but religion is a notable part of many major wars and far more minor skirmishes caused by it.

And you are not a person to tell me where should I debate, and how.

You misunderstand. I didn't say you should go away. I said there's no point for you to debate since you just blindly accept everything that goes even slightly toward confirming your pre-existing beliefs.

Atheists require cast-iron proof, "or else" they go at their own will. Pitiful.

There's no "or else" about it. Either it exists or it doesn't, true or not. The only time you need cast iron proof is when you are ASSERTING that something is real and basing things like MORALS and LIFESTYLES and other important things on something that you have NO proof for.

Morality comes from upbringing, which comes from society, which is established by religious norms along with everything else, and God gave that norm

Not so. A lot of the major ones that pretty much everyone agrees on are pretty much inborn. That's why you don't see wild animals killing their own kind (normally), same instinct as with us. We can just express it in words.

Also, religion doesn't have to play a part in it at all. Religion just takes existing morals, ascribes them to a god, and calls it the divine word.

so, you KNOW there's no God? If yes, you have to prove this. If not, stay in line.

It's a metaphor, take it for what it's worth.

Atheists require cast-iron proof, "or else" they go at their own will. Pitiful.

What you want proof that this unnamed relative from Zimbabwe exists and I really will give you $100,000,000 before you grant me access to your bank account? Pitiful.

What you want proof I really own this bridge and can sell it to you before you hand over you money? Pitiful.

Taking it on faith, your just being gullible. That makes you the pitiful one.

What you want proof that this unnamed relative from Zimbabwe exists and I really will give you $100,000,000 before you grant me access to your bank account? Pitiful.

lol, as funny as that quote is, It's kinda different. with your "cousin", he wants you to do something that is financially impossible, while god is asking for something that is actually rather easy in any form. all he asks is to go against basic human nature (society has already done most of the work for us), be a good person, and just believe in him. unfortunately, atheists will have to take this analysis with a grain of salt.

just believe in him

Which would be pretty freaking easy if he just showed himself.

There's no way around this: If God exists and he punishes those who do not believe in him, he's an *******. He has in no way shown himself in any place but the bible which is full of incorrect and unverifiable information. All he would have to do is show himself and then it would solve a LOT of things. God must really LOVE watching us all fight over which religion is right, because he sure as hell hasn't done anything to try and put a stop to it.

There's no way around this: If God exists and he punishes those who do not believe in him, he's an *******. He has in no way shown himself in any place but the bible which is full of incorrect and unverifiable information. All he would have to do is show himself and then it would solve a LOT of things. God must really LOVE watching us all fight over which religion is right, because he sure as @#!*% hasn't done anything to try and put a stop to it.

that sounded like a lot of pent up anger just got let out.

god did show himself to one man. he was a farmer's son in the 1800s, and was told how the world was currently in a state of darkness. god gave him a path that would bring the true church back to the world, and he followed those instructions to the letter.

today, this church is very prominent and has over 15million members(and counting), while the other churches have slowly declined in membership.

this church is known as the LDS church.

I can personally say that he has done something about it. he has set in motion a way for all of us to come back to him. it is our job to allow this to happen though, for god can't do it all for us. if he does, then we would learn nothing from it, and our belief would be fruitless.

god did show himself to one man. he was a farmer's son in the 1800s, and was told how the world was currently in a state of darkness. god gave him a path that would bring the true church back to the world, and he followed those instructions to the letter.

In 1830, he published as the Book of Mormon what he said was an English translation of these plates and then organized branches of the Church of Christ, saying he had been chosen by God to restore the early Christian church. -wiki
Well god Told me that I should build a church and everyone should give me money and power.

Claiming something is no proof.

Oh, and of course, god didn't care about poverity, illness, wars, hunger, corruption... He just wanted more people to kiss his ***. And guess who he should ask to build a church, an American white male farmer. He could of just appeared in front of everybody, but no, of course not.

Just as a side note it's Weird how he died young at the age of 38. Most prophets in thr bible usually die quite old.

all he asks is to go against basic human nature (society has already done most of the work for us)

If we are to consider this being as the one who made us he was the one who gave us this nature to begin with. The after this asks us to go against the very nature he gave? If so this God is an idiot.