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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Here's the deal. We all know that no one REALLY believes the Christian religion, and I can prove it.

Christianity teaches that only a select few will live their life in such a way that they will enter heaven. Christianity also teaches that infants are innocent and get into heaven by default. The most loving thing a parent could do, then, is to kill their children before they reach an age of reason and thus lose their innocence. Yet, thankfully, this doesn't happen.

Christianity also teaches that when we die, if we've done things right, we get to go to heaven. Well, ever been to a Christian funeral? When was the last time you heard them saying that the deceased was in hell? Never? Oh, yeah. That's because they all believe that everyone gets into heaven. I mean, who wants to think their loved ones are in hell? Well, anyone who REALLY believed the Christian faith would have to admit that it is nearly impossible for ANYONE to get to heaven, and thus it is almost certain that their loved one did something to keep them out and is frying like bacon in hell.

Also, the Bible tells us to rejoice for the dead, for they are at the hand of God in paradise. We also don't see any rejoicing at funerals, and thus these people are NOT following their holy book, they are defying it. If they truly believed that heaven was the best place we could go they would be ecstatic that their mother, father, brother, friend, whoever, has perished, but they are not.

You can use all sorts of counter arguments if you like, but the fact remains that if someone truly honestly believed in the Christian religion then these are the behaviors we would see, based strictly on Biblical scripture. The fact that we do not see them is evidence that people do not fully believe in it. They have doubts, reservations. Parts of their brain that understand reality are still working, despite the best efforts of their religion to the contrary.

And thank goodness that even religion cannot fully shut down cognitive reasoning, otherwise this would be a horrible place to live indeed.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Well, ever been to a Christian funeral? When was the last time you heard them saying that the deceased was in hell? Never? Oh, yeah.


Given recent events I was thinking of this as well.
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

On behalf of the invisible pink unicorn, I hereby request you quit attributing fatima's miracle to god, he had nothing to do with it and it was the unicorn's work, working in it's mysterious ways.


HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT HEATHEN! His noodliness will punish you in the great bowl of pesto in the sky.
Nurvana
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Nurvana
2,520 posts
Farmer

Christianity teaches that only a select few will live their life in such a way that they will enter heaven. Christianity also teaches that infants are innocent and get into heaven by default. The most loving thing a parent could do, then, is to kill their children before they reach an age of reason and thus lose their innocence. Yet, thankfully, this doesn't happen.


You are charged to love God more than any others, and since you love him more than your child, then you should spare him/her so that you can greater pursue heaven.
Christianity also teaches that when we die, if we've done things right, we get to go to heaven. Well, ever been to a Christian funeral? When was the last time you heard them saying that the deceased was in hell? Never? Oh, yeah. That's because they all believe that everyone gets into heaven. I mean, who wants to think their loved ones are in hell? Well, anyone who REALLY believed the Christian faith would have to admit that it is nearly impossible for ANYONE to get to heaven, and thus it is almost certain that their loved one did something to keep them out and is frying like bacon in hell.


Purgatory.
Also, the Bible tells us to rejoice for the dead, for they are at the hand of God in paradise. We also don't see any rejoicing at funerals, and thus these people are NOT following their holy book, they are defying it. If they truly believed that heaven was the best place we could go they would be ecstatic that their mother, father, brother, friend, whoever, has perished, but they are not.


There is nothing wrong with sorrow for a loved one's death. I personally rejoice every morning that one of my best friends had passed on, and pray every day for his well-being. Do I know he is in Heaven? No. Do I know he is in Hell? No. So I might as well hope for the best.
You can use all sorts of counter arguments if you like, but the fact remains that if someone truly honestly believed in the Christian religion then these are the behaviors we would see, based strictly on Biblical scripture.


So, uh, yeah. Please refer to the above statements.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Also, the Bible tells us to rejoice for the dead, for they are at the hand of God in paradise.


In it's own defense, the bible also says that you should mourn, but not excessively, for they are lost to you but not to god.

Anyways...

You are charged to love God more than any others, and since you love him more than your child, then you should spare him/her so that you can greater pursue heaven.


Here's the thing I want to know. Since god knows all, he knows whether or not you will believe in him correct? Which means that he is essentially condemning you to hell because you do not believe, and he makes no effort to make you believe. He is omnipotent, meaning he can do w/e he wants, which means if he wanted to make you believe he could. But he does not. So how in any sense is this a loving god?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Here's the thing I want to know. Since god knows all, he knows whether or not you will believe in him correct? Which means that he is essentially condemning you to hell because you do not believe, and he makes no effort to make you believe. He is omnipotent, meaning he can do w/e he wants, which means if he wanted to make you believe he could. But he does not. So how in any sense is this a loving god?


I would like to add that free will does not answer this issue in the least. Providing objective evidence for his existence does not restrict our free will. Even if restricting free will a little was necessary, it's not loving to allow those you claim to love to continue on a detrimental path when you can easily stop them.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

otherwise this would be a horrible place to live indeed.

To me it already is XD

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT HEATHEN! His noodliness will punish you in the great bowl of pesto in the sky.

Calm down with your fanatical ways, Qwerty, only the Spaghetti Monster can help you now.
You know it's the truth in your heart, you know it is the religion with most taste... Er..

Purgatory.

That's doing nothing, that is nearly worse than Hell because at least you can rejoice in the fact that you got more balls to take on Satan than anyone else.
That's how I'd think of it anyway, I don't care if I go to Hell because as far as I'm concerned God (if he or she is indeed real) is being unreasonable for wanting me to believe in something that has little proof or evidence to back it up. That's why I think the Spaghetti Monster is watching over me, if you've read his book (AKA Cooking recipes) then you will know that he is there.

So I might as well hope for the best.

That's all that Religion does. It inspires hope.

In some ways, I can't wait to die - I want to see what's on the other end, in other ways, I don't want to die until my work is finished. Other than that, I have no other role on this planet except to enjoy what scientific conditions have given me.

There is nothing wrong with sorrow for a loved one's death.

Indeed - but the Bible, on many occasions has contradicted itself, therefore the interpretion is very wide and can easily be seen wrongly.

So how in any sense is this a loving god?

Because he's the one who makes us endure the crap that goes on a day-by-day basis with the free will we've apparently been given by him, so we can slap him in the face, tell him to gtfo and then be punished for following a more logical reason.

My mother has more power over me than God, because I don't let God interfere - I let my mother, surely, it is her house after all, and therefore her rules apply. If this is Gods earth then make it apparent to us he's still keeping it tidy, because right now more crap is flying about I prefer not think an omni-present being is in charge of all of this.

- H
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Calm down with your fanatical ways, Qwerty, only the Spaghetti Monster can help you now.
You know it's the truth in your heart, you know it is the religion with most taste... Er..


Aha! I see you have left your fantasy of the IPU and rejoiced in your new found love for his noodliness.
There is nothing wrong with sorrow for a loved one's death. I personally rejoice every morning that one of my best friends had passed on, and pray every day for his well-being. Do I know he is in Heaven? No. Do I know he is in Hell? No. So I might as well hope for the best.


You REJOICE that you friend is dead. Is thsi what Christianity does for you.
erPicci
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erPicci
38 posts
Peasant

I'd like to point out one vital thing: what is hell according to Christianity.
I read many posts here where people talked about "someone who decides to condemn or not a dead soul to hell"... You probably think that hell is a scary place with devils, huge fires, and so on... actually this is a medieval heresy (or better, medieval church used these fairy-tales about hell to scare peoples...). Modern Christianity admits that (whit a little shame, I think), and defined what hell is according to Christianity: it is the only place where god IS NOT PRESENT. That's all. No huge fires.
Religion also says that anyone who believes can go to the paradise. Those who don't believe don't care about god, so the "go" to a place where there isn't god: the hell (I repeat: no huge fire, no eternal ****ation, just a regular place, but without god).

I want to point that I'm not saying "this is the absolute truth, you must believe", I'm just reporting what Christianity affirms about hell, underling that it makes sense or, at least, it doesn't contradict itself.


The most loving thing a parent could do, then, is to kill their children before they reach an age of reason and thus lose their innocence

This would mean taking away the babies' freedom. According to Christianity, every person must be free to choose what life style he/she wants. A baby, of course, cannot take decisions on his/her own, so the parents must wait until he/she is old enough to decide if believing or not. This is why the baptism is not the confirmation of someone's belonging to Christianity, but just an initiation. The confirmation will happen when (and if) the person will decide it.

Christianity also teaches that when we die, if we've done things right, we get to go to heaven.

Not exactly. Christianity teach that we go to heaven if we've done things right... OR if we have asked for sorry for our crimes. According to Christianity, god always forgives whomever asks for sorry (once again: I don't say this is "absolute truth", I just report what Christian theology affirms).

Also, the Bible tells us to rejoice for the dead, for they are at the hand of God in paradise.

True. But bible doesn't say "you daddy is dead, why not making a party?", instead it "knows" that you are feeling sad, so it "tries" to cheer you up, reminding you that that now you father rests in peace in paradise. This is because bible is not a law book, it doesn't tell you what you are allowed or not to do, instead it tells you what kind of action will be considered good/bad and why. It's up to you to decide which one follow. It tells you that, when someone dies, it's normal to be sad, but you should ("should", not "have to&quot rejoice for the dead. Like a friend cheering you up.

We all know that no one REALLY believes the Christian religion, and I can prove it. [...] based strictly on Biblical scripture

I agree to the fact that no one follows literally the Bible. But I disagree about a vital point: a Christian believer is NOT someone who follows strictly the Biblical scripture. Following it is simply impossible for many reason. The main reason is that a lot of the Bible's contents are written in an allegorical form. The goal is to do understand the meaning of the scripture's, not to do whatever is written on a 2000-years-old book. The Christianity itself says that you must use you head to think and, whenever you need to, you can freely ask god or priests (etc). Just an example: the person closest to religion is, probably, the priest. So... does the Bible say "everyone must become a priest"? of course not. Instead it says "if you wish to follow god, you must find your way to do it. Oh, and if you want to become a priest, you're welcome!".


Once again, I'm not saying "This is the absolute truth", I'm reporting what Christian Theology affirms. (according to many studies I did).
If you wonder if I believe in what I wrote, the answer is yes, but it is just my choice to believe, it has nothing to do with the formal report I gave.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I'd like to point out one vital thing: what is hell according to Christianity.
I read many posts here where people talked about "someone who decides to condemn or not a dead soul to hell"... You probably think that hell is a scary place with devils, huge fires, and so on... actually this is a medieval heresy (or better, medieval church used these fairy-tales about hell to scare peoples...). Modern Christianity admits that (whit a little shame, I think), and defined what hell is according to Christianity: it is the only place where god IS NOT PRESENT. That's all. No huge fires.

Really? Care to bring up the verses? Most versions of Christian hell arose from a little blood soaked book of Revelations, where it says things like:

21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and *****mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I highlighted the part about fire and brimstone.

I want to point that I'm not saying "this is the absolute truth, you must believe", I'm just reporting what Christianity affirms about hell, underling that it makes sense or, at least, it doesn't contradict itself.


*Points toward Revelations again*

This would mean taking away the babies' freedom.


So why does your god kill babies with a huge infant mortality rate? I mean, if this took way babies freedom, then why does your god kill babies on a massive scale? Good thing we have medical science...

According to Christianity, every person must be free to choose what life style he/she wants. A baby, of course, cannot take decisions on his/her own, so the parents must wait until he/she is old enough to decide if believing or not. This is why the baptism is not the confirmation of someone's belonging to Christianity, but just an initiation. The confirmation will happen when (and if) the person will decide it.


So all those miscarried babies go to hell then?

Not exactly. Christianity teach that we go to heaven if we've done things right... OR if we have asked for sorry for our crimes.


Actually, only if you felt sorry for your "crimes", and not to just anybody, but you have to believe and say it to Jebuz. Since everyone was apparently born from an apple woman, we are all apparently born with some "Original Sin" according to many Christians around these forums. So it would be impossible to "Do the right things" by your religion unless we where actually believing in your religion...

True. But bible doesn't say "you daddy is dead, why not making a party?", instead it "knows" that you are feeling sad, so it "tries" to cheer you up, reminding you that that now you father rests in peace in paradise


Or fire and brimstone in hell, depending on his religious beliefs.

This is because bible is not a law book, it doesn't tell you what you are allowed or not to do, instead it tells you what kind of action will be considered good/bad and why.


Really? So all those bloody murders in the OT where examples of how to act good then?

agree to the fact that no one follows literally the Bible


That is good. Otherwise most of America would be stoned by now...

But I disagree about a vital point: a Christian believer is NOT someone who follows strictly the Biblical scripture. Following it is simply impossible for many reason. The main reason is that a lot of the Bible's contents are written in an allegorical form. The goal is to do understand the meaning of the scripture's, not to do whatever is written on a 2000-years-old book.


So you are saying "The parts I don't like are just metaphors and stories or poems. They are not meant to be taken literally. I know a lot better than the people who actually wrote the book!"

Well, Jesus disagrees.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jebuz was pretty clear here. If you think your better than the scribes and Pharisees, then you are going to hell.

Once again, I'm not saying "This is the absolute truth", I'm reporting what Christian Theology affirms. (according to many studies I did).


Do more studies. You are off.
Nurvana
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Nurvana
2,520 posts
Farmer

5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


No no no sir; I'm sure you're aware that the scribes and pharisees were a bunch of *****. Jesus is saying that unless you're MORE righteous than them, i.e. NOT a ****, then you aren't going to heaven, just like the scribes a pharisees. I'm confused as to how you'd read that improperly.
erPicci
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erPicci
38 posts
Peasant

Really? Care to bring up the verses? Most versions of Christian hell arose from a little blood soaked book of Revelations, where it says things like: [...]

Allegorical, as I said in the previous post.


So why does your god kill babies with a huge infant mortality rate? I mean, if this took way babies freedom, then why does your god kill babies on a massive scale? Good thing we have medical science...

Medical science is great, no doubt! Anyway, I think you are right on this point (or, at least, I don't have an answer). Anyway, the infant mortality doesn't mean that a parent should kill his/her baby in order to prevent his/her loss of innocence.



So all those miscarried babies go to hell then?

Why should they? The haven't done anything bad. Well, they haven't done anything at all... Seriously, talking about miscarried baby is hard. In some religions, it is said that a baby receives a soul on a certain moment (after the conception, but before the birth) and honestly I don't remember what Christian theology says about it. I'm sorry. Anyway, if the baby doesn't have a soul...nothing happens to him/her. If he/she has one, I think it would be an innocent, so... paradise? I'm not sure.

Actually, only if you felt sorry for your "crimes", and not to just anybody, but you have to believe and say it to Jebuz.

You're right.

Since everyone was apparently born from an apple woman, we are all apparently born with some "Original Sin" according to many Christians around these forums. So it would be impossible to "Do the right things" by your religion unless we where actually believing in your religion...

If it's impossible to do the right thing, it's still possible to ask for sorry. By the way, I don't know a lot about the Original Sin thing... not yet at least.
Really? So all those bloody murders in the OT where examples of how to act good then?

Good argument. I don't know what theology says about this (yes, I need to study more). If I am not wrong there were many stories of bloody murders in the Bible, and everyone of them has a different meaning. For instance, the Flood: god killed every single man. Pretty bad, isn't it? Well, the Flood actually was something like an overflow, which surely did a lot of damage, but didn't kill the whole mankind. The ones who wrote about the Flood... exaggerated a bit. Why? The wanted to convey a particular idea, or the wanted to show "how powerful and revengeful god is". Those thing were common in ancient literature and theology. Note that things changed in the NT. And changed even more in modern religion. (luckily!)

So you are saying "The parts I don't like are just metaphors and stories or poems. They are not meant to be taken literally. I know a lot better than the people who actually wrote the book!"

Yes and no. More no. I think that everything written there has an allegorical meaning (not only the things I don't like). I think fire-blast hell to be a metaphor... but I also think light and cloudy paradise to be a metaphor as well. I don't think that the paradise is a place that stands upon the clouds, up in the skies.
In my opinion, I consider the Bible a mix of literature and theology. It is supposed to be written by men inspirited by god... but still men. The use of metaphors and images is common in ancient literature. For instance... Adam and Eva had 2 male sons. Later one the mankind multiplied, but... how?! If the were just two males how could they have sons?! Or did they...with Eva...?
Oh well, there are 2 answers... mankind is based on incest or the 2 boys are a metaphor to indicate something else (like 2 folks or something like that). It was just an example of the use of metaphors.
I don't think to "know a lot better than the people who actually wrote the book", in fact I'm just telling both my opinions, both what has been taught me by people who were more intelligent than me.

Well, Jesus disagrees.
[...]
Jebuz was pretty clear here. If you think your better than the scribes and Pharisees, then you are going to hell.

The verses you quoted say "... shall", "...will", not "have to" or "can't". Is this just a matter about grammar? Maybe. We are talking about a text which has been translated many time over 2000 years. We are talking about a text which wasn't written by god, but by men inspirited by god. Even if it was a perfect translation, I don't think we are talking about a formal law (like a civil law: "if you commit crime x you will get the y penalty), but a moral law. It is dialectic in a way... like the difference between civil honour and the moral honour (&quotointe d'honneur&quot

Do more studies. You are off.

Please, don't be so rude. I know that I'm still at the beginning and I have to study more and more. I never meant to be "the one who bring the Revelation Truth", as I tried to point, but "someone who studied something and got the chance to discuss about it".
I tried to use arguments better that "I believe, and you don't, so you will burn in hell".
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Modern Christianity admits that (whit a little shame, I think), and defined what hell is according to Christianity: it is the only place where god IS NOT PRESENT. That's all. No huge fires.


So like Earth you mean. Since people who don't follow God go to hell which is like the earth since they never felt god there. Christians go to heaven where they have god like they have god on earth. So why be Christian. Hell seems fine.

The Christianity itself says that you must use you head to think and, whenever you need to, you can freely ask god or priests (etc). Just an example: the person closest to religion is, probably, the priest. So... does the Bible say "everyone must become a priest"? of course not. Instead it says "if you wish to follow god, you must find your way to do it. Oh, and if you want to become a priest, you're welcome!".


If most Christians used their head they'd see that Christianity is based on a lie and there is no proof for it so they'd become atheists. Saying that is kind of suicidal.

If it's impossible to do the right thing, it's still possible to ask for sorry. By the way, I don't know a lot about the Original Sin thing... not yet at least.


But surely you must admit that original sin is a myth because you don't seem to have as limited a mind as that kind of flat earth creationist.

Good argument. I don't know what theology says about this (yes, I need to study more). If I am not wrong there were many stories of bloody murders in the Bible, and everyone of them has a different meaning. For instance, the Flood: god killed every single man. Pretty bad, isn't it? Well, the Flood actually was something like an overflow, which surely did a lot of damage, but didn't kill the whole mankind. The ones who wrote about the Flood... exaggerated a bit. Why? The wanted to convey a particular idea, or the wanted to show "how powerful and revengeful god is". Those thing were common in ancient literature and theology. Note that things changed in the NT. And changed even more in modern religion. (luckily!)


So the genocide in the book of Joshua was showing a message? All the death, slavery and **** showed a message? I think you need to read the old testament and revise your ideas.

Yes and no. More no. I think that everything written there has an allegorical meaning (not only the things I don't like). I think fire-blast hell to be a metaphor... but I also think light and cloudy paradise to be a metaphor as well. I don't think that the paradise is a place that stands upon the clouds, up in the skies.
In my opinion, I consider the Bible a mix of literature and theology. It is supposed to be written by men inspirited by god... but still men. The use of metaphors and images is common in ancient literature. For instance... Adam and Eva had 2 male sons. Later one the mankind multiplied, but... how?! If the were just two males how could they have sons?! Or did they...with Eva...?


This is a metaphor for how limited the minds of the creators of the bible were. It can't really have a meaning. And since it has no meaning Jesus died for nothing. And the basis of your religion is that he died for something.
erPicci
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erPicci
38 posts
Peasant

So like Earth you mean. Since people who don't follow God go to hell which is like the earth since they never felt god there. Christians go to heaven where they have god like they have god on earth. So why be Christian. Hell seems fine.

Yes. Umh... for instance... lets say that Mr A is a good person, gentle with others, etc, but he doesn't believe in god. Does he have to burn in a fire storm hell? Poor him, no! If god exists and is good it is impossible that he would put Mr A in a place of eternal ****ation. Mr A just choose to live without good. His choice must be respected and not condemned.

If most Christians used their head they'd see that Christianity is based on a lie and there is no proof for it so they'd become atheists. Saying that is kind of suicidal.

But surely you must admit that original sin is a myth because you don't seem to have as limited a mind as that kind of flat earth creationist.

You're right, I admit it is a myth. I don't think that the earth was created in seven days!
Thank for saying I don't seem a limited mind, I appreciated it

So the genocide in the book of Joshua was showing a message? All the death, slavery and **** showed a message? I think you need to read the old testament and revise your ideas.

Yes, I'd better do that. I think any episode of genocide has a different "meaning" (a bad meaning). Honestly, the more I look at the OT, the more I think that OT god is different from "modern" god. Maybe I'm a little heretic, or maybe it's the church's interpretation which changed in the last millennia.

This is a metaphor for how limited the minds of the creators of the bible were. It can't really have a meaning. And since it has no meaning Jesus died for nothing. And the basis of your religion is that he died for something.

Surely the story about Cain and Abel is a myth. Thanks to evolutionism we all know that there weren't just two people, but a group of monkeys who evolved... oh well, some monkeys like my girlfriend's mom didn't totally evolve... emh, sorry. Anyway the figure of the bad brother (Cain) is common nowadays. And it was common also millennia ago, I think. So who wrote the OT actually wrote... a myth (or maybe something more). And myth are made in order to try to explain the word we see. So... why is my brother so nasty with me? Because it is in his Cain-like nature. Why don't we live in the Eden? Because of Eva. And so on. Ancient people wanted to know how the word was made, and why there were bad brothers, etc., so ancient people act as every other ancient people and created a myth.
Narrow minded people who lived after said "the ancient are saying this! This MUST be true!".
And nowadays... we know that it was impossible and we must face that the scripture is actually a mix of myth, literature and theology.
In a sense this wasn't bad: we stopped to be so narrow minded and begun to search answer on our own. We stopped to say "the bible says this, so it's right", instead we say "the bible says this. What does it mean? Does it mean anything?" and we start looking for the answer. Too bad, no one can guarantee us that the answers we find is correct... we can just try our best and try to confront our ideas with others' ideas. I think that's a positive thing.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I read many posts here where people talked about "someone who decides to condemn or not a dead soul to hell"... You probably think that hell is a scary place with devils, huge fires, and so on... actually this is a medieval heresy (or better, medieval church used these fairy-tales about hell to scare peoples...). Modern Christianity admits that (whit a little shame, I think), and defined what hell is according to Christianity: it is the only place where god IS NOT PRESENT. That's all. No huge fires.


This concept of a fiery pit comes out of the new testament. Also if it's a lack of God's presence then it violates God quality of being omnipresent.

Religion also says that anyone who believes can go to the paradise. Those who don't believe don't care about god, so the "go" to a place where there isn't god: the hell (I repeat: no huge fire, no eternal ****ation, just a regular place, but without god).


All God has to do to get me to believe he exists is provide me with evidence that would convince me of his existence.

I agree to the fact that no one follows literally the Bible. But I disagree about a vital point: a Christian believer is NOT someone who follows strictly the Biblical scripture. Following it is simply impossible for many reason. The main reason is that a lot of the Bible's contents are written in an allegorical form.


There is no line between what is to be taken literally and what is not. The way it's written even God could be just another metaphor.

Why should they? The haven't done anything bad. Well, they haven't done anything at all...


They don't have to some ancestor of theirs apparently did something. (original sin)

Seriously, talking about miscarried baby is hard. In some religions, it is said that a baby receives a soul on a certain moment (after the conception, but before the birth) and honestly I don't remember what Christian theology says about it.


Considering the anti abortion stuff comes mostly from the Christians right, it's generally believed they get their soul at conception.

If it's impossible to do the right thing, it's still possible to ask for sorry. By the way, I don't know a lot about the Original Sin thing... not yet at least.


Rib lady was convinced by a talking snake to eat a fruit God didn't want her eating but placed in a very easy to reach central location then she convinced her boyfriend to do the same and they learned what right and wrong was. So God got pissed layed down a bunch of punishments and kicked them out to prevent them from eating another fruit that would make them immortal. All there descendants (the entire human race) also get blamed for this action. God seemed to have trouble letting go of this issue, so he sent his son down to be brutally tortured and killed just so God could say "your forgiven". This however still wasn't enough to unconditionally forgiving everyone. We had to actively accept this cruel barbaric act. And kiss God's back side for being so nice to have someone killed for something we never actually did ourselves and God could have prevented from happening in the first place.

There are some who say that first half of the story is just a metaphor. If that is the case the Guy being killed for those actions is dying for a sin that never actually took place.
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