Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.) I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons. Supporting evidence: the following skit: What's your reason? Setting: A gun shop, modern day. A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please." The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?" The Customer says "I need one for personal protection." The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell." The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!" The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left. Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun." Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks. The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting." The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy. The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states. The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff. Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says. The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks. The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot! The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet. The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!" The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves. Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says. The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks. Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other". "Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly. The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer. "Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows. "Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"
Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!
The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?
Masterforger do you even read what you are typing? i didn't say say that tasers were the only solution plus you say that we (ordinary sane people) need guns... WHY??!! and most of the guns are for a military use and are not meant for the average joe (including the Chinese guns you mentioned) please next time think be fore replying, but i dont blame you; there is no way anyone trying to defend gun use can use common sense that is why you will probably quote misleading, stupid statistics
Masterforger do you even read what you are typing? i didn't say say that tasers were the only solution plus you say that we (ordinary sane people) need guns... WHY??!! and most of the guns are for a military use and are not meant for the average joe (including the Chinese guns you mentioned) please next time think be fore replying, but i dont blame you; there is no way anyone trying to defend gun use can use common sense that is why you will probably quote misleading, stupid statistics
I didn't quote ay statistics. -_- I never said that everyone needs guns. WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA? I think it is safe to say that if I do not explicitly state that everyone needs a gun, I do not think that everyone needs a gun. Still with me here?
And, as most of the smarter gun supporters here have stated, you can tighten the gun restrictions and enforce trafficking in a better way. What part of this is not making sense?
@carnage1995 ic you have been watching telly and just copied what the crazy NRA dude said. there is too much wrong whit what your saying that i dont even gonna start about your post.
Not really. A .22 will ricochet off of bone inside the body. It won't "bounce around" like some sort of cartoon but it can alter its direction if it hits bone. Though, admittedly, I haven't tried shooting someone with a .22 to confirm.Not really. A .22 will ricochet off of bone inside the body. It won't "bounce around" like some sort of cartoon but it can alter its direction if it hits bone. Though, admittedly, I haven't tried shooting someone with a .22 to confirm.
under the right circumstances every gun can do this. also the most powerful sniper rifle ever. how often does it happen? not often enough to make a point of it i guess.
Yes, but large straw sales are eliminated that way. Nothing's perfect. I'd rather have one gun a day making it's way into criminals hands than an unlimited number of guns per day.
still, it wont change a thing. the country wont become a safer place this way.
i think it would be better if you simply do not allow anyone to have more guns then 1. only those that really NEED a gun can have more. depending per situation how much actually. (can be regulated by bureaucracy)
lol Do you speak from experience? I've never considered murdering someone so I don't know what kind or how much motivation it takes.
a gun is point and click. try to point and click a knife and nothing will happen. the knife needs more motivation to become deadly. every single weapon or object (except crossbows) needs more motivation to become deadly then a gun needs.
I was just saying that the idea that some types of guns are less deadly is ridiculous.
it is. but in a situation your brother was in, the biggest gun ever wouldn't have saved him. because they probably shot him dead befor he knew it. (i dunno the real situation. this is based on the info you gave.)
lol, Piers Morgan?
it was mend sarcastic, sorry.
i think morgan would find it funny if a petition arises that wants the NRA to be deported out the country. after all the BS that he should be eported for what he said. atleast i c the irony in it. xD but i agree the NRA is evil.
We've had guns for centuries. The ancient Chinese even had basic cannons. And humans have always been warlike
is that a reason to keep guns? is "because it's always been like this" a good reason? why isn't there a war going on in europe then? there always have been a war in europe.
I think it is safe to say that if I do not explicitly state that everyone needs a gun, I do not think that everyone needs a gun. Still with me here?
next time use this sens when you accuse someone of saying that all guns need to be banned, when they never said that. thx.
as most of the smarter gun supporters here have stated, you can tighten the gun restrictions and enforce trafficking in a better way. What part of this is not making sense?
but they do believe that the amount of guns is oke and not way to much. (some even want more guns -.-' this is where (on this forum atleast) the pro and anti groups collide. and this is what doesn't make sense to me.
Also, I would like to mention that if a burglar/intruder goes into your home while your inside it they, more than likely, have already planned to kill you. Otherwise, they would have went inside it after they saw you left.
I'll ask again, does it really happen that often that people break into your house during day with guns and shoot everybody? Because to me it sounds like one of those American paranoias. And the gun lobby will certainly do what they can to make a fuss about occasional occurences like this.
I think that gun laws need to be changed. Prosecute these people who do straw sales to criminals. Limit the amount of guns a person can buy at once. Heck, I can't get a decent amount of cold medicine in this freaking country but I can buy the entire stock of a gun store in one day and resell it? It would be a major hassle but even background checks for ammo might not be a bad idea. Make background checks mandatory for private sales. I guarantee that those changes will impact the gun murder rate much more than a ban. Finally, the NRA should be booted out of this country because they seem to like protecting criminals and gun sales more than protecting the rights of regular people.
^All of this.
Easy, because I can, because I want to, and to protect myself and others from a tyrannical government if it ever happens. Have you learned nothing from Hitler, Hugo Chavez, Mao, Stalin, etc...?
That's a bunch of paranoic blabber. Besides, it was mentioned multiple times that a complete ban on guns might not be the goal to aim, but just a more restrictive lawset. You want the guns in the hands of the right people, too, dontcha?
A women was recently ***** to death with an iron rod, the women of India are bringing up petitions to be able to own firearms because the police can't and won't protect them.
Hm, funny. I don't remember the lack of guns being criticized by all of India. I'm pretty sure it was something else... Her lacking a gun wasn't the cause of this nor would it have helped her much, being tracked by a whole gang. In situations where pistols could help, a taser of pepper spray can help too. And no, Masterforger, they're not infallible either, but nothing is, really. If guns where a miracle recipe against crime, how come there's still crime?
a gun is point and click. try to point and click a knife and nothing will happen. the knife needs more motivation to become deadly. every single weapon or object (except crossbows) needs more motivation to become deadly then a gun needs.
Motivation is different from skill. Motivation would mean whether or not they wanted to kill someone. Most humans wouldn't just shoot someone outright, unless they had a mental problem. But if they're angry enough, they will attack. A knife just takes more skill to wield, it's "motivation" is nothing. If someone wanted to kill someone, they would just have to be close enough.
Her lacking a gun wasn't the cause of this nor would it have helped her much, being tracked by a whole gang. In situations where pistols could help, a taser of pepper spray can help too. And no, Masterforger, they're not infallible either, but nothing is, really. If guns where a miracle recipe against crime, how come there's still crime?
Of course, this scenario would be no better with a gun, but I was not the one who mentioned it. But I have heard from a police officer that pepper spray doesn't often work, and it is like a knife in that you need to be close to use it. In fact, it'd be handier to have a knife considering how wieldy they are. If you get mugged, pulling out a knife could make your assailant run away. Not guaranteed, but likely.
Motivation is different from skill. Motivation would mean whether or not they wanted to kill someone. Most humans wouldn't just shoot someone outright, unless they had a mental problem. But if they're angry enough, they will attack. A knife just takes more skill to wield, it's "motivation" is nothing. If someone wanted to kill someone, they would just have to be close enough.
i c you fail to see my point.
i'm not talking about the motivation of the person / human / attacker or whatever you wanna call the living object that uses the weapon (your still whit me here?)
i'm talking about how much motivation this lifeless object / weapon needs to become deadly. NOT THE PERSON BEHIND IT.
But I have heard from a police officer that pepper spray doesn't often work,
hahaha, that is a stupid cop. xD i have yet to see the 1st person that is not getting effected by pepper spry. xD if it hits the eye's it always works.
and it is like a knife in that you need to be close to use it.
[/quote]i'm talking about how much motivation this lifeless object / weapon needs to become deadly. NOT THE PERSON BEHIND IT.
That, quite simply, makes no sense at all. The amount of action, sure, but motivation is not the word you're looking for.
hahaha, that is a stupid cop. xD i have yet to see the 1st person that is not getting effected by pepper spry. xD if it hits the eye's it always works.
So it's safe to say you have done it to a real attacker at least ten times before?
if your knife is 5 meter long, yes.[quote] The second someone pulls out pepper spray, the attacker will most likely cover their eyes and retreat. Also, pepper spray isn't very useful if you're attack by two people doing the traditional "talk to the victim while your mate sneaks up on them"
Also gun lovers better keep silver bullets for Werewolves, Holy water and garlic for Vampires, because you never know when they'll decide to gang up on you. xD
So it's safe to say you have done it to a real attacker at least ten times before?
you got 1 example? even when people are prepared for it. and fight the pain. it still makes them unable to harm much.
The second someone pulls out pepper spray, the attacker will most likely cover their eyes and retreat.
well then it has worked right?
Also, pepper spray isn't very useful if you're attack by two people doing the traditional "talk to the victim while your mate sneaks up on them"
hmmm... if you can shoot 2 people, you can spry them both. it's not like the spry is empty in a sec.
And this is rather off-topic.
you can call everything i say off topic. but that doesn't change that it is on-topic. non-lethal weapons are part of the gun control debate. as it is a good alternative self defense option. that is why you want your guns right? to defend yourself.
ow my bad it is off-topic. because you can't fallow.
But I have heard from a police officer that pepper spray doesn't often work, and it is like a knife in that you need to be close to use it. In fact, it'd be handier to have a knife considering how wieldy they are. If you get mugged, pulling out a knife could make your assailant run away. Not guaranteed, but likely.
Mhm. However, you said yourself knives need more skill, while pepper spray just need to be aimed and fired, like a gun. With more spray area that is. Imagine a young lady with a knife, against a tall muscular man. Any chances a knife will scare him? Also:
The second someone pulls out pepper spray, the attacker will most likely cover their eyes and retreat.
And yes, I know it wasn't your example. But you were the one to say pepper spray were not that effective. While I assert that it can help, not like a gun could, but still to some extend, in certain situations.
Guns are designed to wound, maim and kill. If a government wants to make it easier for it's people to wound, maim and kill each other, then by all means leave your gun control laws as weak and loophole-ridden as you like.
Motivate: To provide with a motive or motives; incite; impel Motive: Something that causes a person to act in a certain way, do a certain thing, etc; incentive People don't murder people because of the gun. They're already in a killing mindset from other things, such as anger or greed. The gun does nothing to cause that emotion.
