I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
So either way, Adam and Eve knew the consequences, and they made a choice.
Actually, Adam and Eve were free of sin, and completely innocent. They had no concept of lying. Thus, when the snake told them it was okay, why would they doubt it? Why, if that garden was perfect, would God have allowed Satan in in the first place?
@Wafflesquad God tempted them by placing the tree there and telling them not to eat from it. He said they'd die, but that's about the only thing he said, right? If there is more, please tell me. If not, they didn't know about the consequences of their acts. They simply had a warning. The issue with the serpent that some think is satan is a disputed one; nowhere does it explicitely say the serpent was satan, also heaven is a place where there can't be sins; and satan was cast out by rebelling, if it really was satan as a serpent, why wasn't he cast out earlier, why did god allow him to do that? They didn't make a choice because there was no choice. God tempted them. Directly, and as it seems now, even indirectly by allowing satan to do that.
What kind of love would God have if he let Israel keep sinning?
So when God allows so many people to to preform horrific acts to others and in many cases in his names, it's because he loves us so much that he allows us free will. But when Israel is continually sinning and God steps in and interferes causing people to die slow horrible deaths bringing them to the point where they are forced to eat there own children, it's because God loved them enough to stop them from sinning more... and did so by bringing them to do even more horrific acts???
do your research. Eve was tempted, and God told them that if they ate the fruit they'd die(Genesis 2:16-18)
And God lied, they didn't die the day they ate the fruit. As for the tempting it basically went down as Snake: "eat the fruit" Eve: "God said not to" Snake: "It's okay eat the fruit" Eve: "When you put it that way okay"
It really didn't take much of any tempting there.
Also, the serpent(who was Satan) tempted them
Actually it says the snake was just an animal created by God. There are later verses in Revelations referring to Satan as an old serpent but doesn't indicate that it's in reference to the one in the Genesis. If it is referring to the one in Genesis then we have yet another contradiction in the Bible.
Satan didnt just simply said that, he made Eve curious and said that if you at this fruit you will have the power of your superior, along with other persuasive words. God simply made that fruit to test us.
Let's start here. Serpent is not referred to as being the Devil but just an animal. Genesis 3:1 (NIV) Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
he made Eve curious and said that if you at this fruit you will have the power of your superior,
Considering that was the very reason God didn't want them eating it in the first place as we see later in the story we find out that this is the truth. Really this is pretty much all the snake says to get her to eat the fruit after her initial argument not to just because God said so. This is also one of many times where we have gaining knowledge being treated as a bad thing in the Bible.
Snake: "Eat the fruit" (Gen 3:1) Eve: "God said not to" (Gen 3:2-3) The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"
Snake: "It's okay eat the fruit" (Gen:4-5) "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Eve: "When you put it that way okay" (Gen 3:6) When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Why do we need to be tested.
So God can find out something he already knows of course.
I don't know if this has been talked over alreday, or if it is mentioned somewhere in the bible or not.. but I had a thought about something I'd like to ask, about Lucifer. Was he 'evil' from the beginning, or was he just as any other angel first and corrupted afterwards?
I don't know if this has been talked over alreday, or if it is mentioned somewhere in the bible or not.. but I had a thought about something I'd like to ask, about Lucifer. Was he 'evil' from the beginning, or was he just as any other angel first and corrupted afterwards?
Technically Lucifer is a mistranslation being applied to the Devil.
From wiki, "Traditionally, Lucifer (English pronunciation: /ËluËsɪfÉr, ljuËsɪfÉr/) is a name that in English generally refers to the devil before being cast from heaven, although this is not the original meaning of the term. In Latin, from which the English word is derived, Lucifer means "light-bearer" (from the words lucem ferre). It was the name given to the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, which heralds daylight. For this meaning, English generally uses the names "Morning Star" or "Day Star", and rarely "Lucifer"."
Now the part that often is referred to the fall is also not actually talking about a fallen angel but the Babylonian King.
Isaiah 14:4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended!
Everything after the above is talking about this king, including...
Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Now for the standard mythological view usually has Lucifer as pretty much God's right hand angel who get's a fat head and thinks he can do things better than God and get's a godly pimp smacked to Earth/Hell.
Very interesting notes about the name and the use of it, thanks for that.
I was referring to the standart mythological view though; what I thought is, if Lucifer (Satan as an angel) was evil from the beginning, god has created him evil, thus god created evil; if he was pure before, was corrupted and got a big head, then there had to be something before that corrputed him; there had to be greed, lust for power and similar things already before, thus god must have created those, thus laying the foundations of evil and letting them affect some of his angels. Either way, I can't think of a reason to deny that god created evil while acknowledging satan as a fallen angel. Maybe there's a way to twist it but I don't see any.
if Lucifer (Satan as an angel) was evil from the beginning, god has created him evil, thus god created evil; if he was pure before, was corrupted and got a big head, then there had to be something before that corrputed him; there had to be greed, lust for power and similar things already before, thus god must have created those, thus laying the foundations of evil and letting them affect some of his angels.
God did not create the evil, rather he gave angels and humans alike free-will. Lucifer was the anointed cherub. God gave lucifer power, but with lucifer used his own free-will to pervert his power
