I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
Growing up and eternal ****ation literally have no correspondence.
This example was a comparison that YOUR article made between growing up and eternal ****ation. I pointed out why that analogy is flawed. I guess we agree.
I can see men make errors. I see men make mistakes that damage the material and eternal lives of others. Just because a man assumes the title "scientist" does not make him free of these faults. Evolution is supposedly proven, but common decent is not.
Science doesn't assert absolute certainty at any point. It gives the best possible explanation based on evidence. Evolution might be wrong, but we shouldn't assume that it is when we have nothing but religious reasons to oppose it.
Lets just rewind a bit. Please ask your question as simply as possible, with as little fat as possible. If you have multiple questions, please separate them. I don't have my glasses right now and its hard to read.
Sure. Let's rewind. You have said that:
I don't think what Men have said, do say, or will say matters.
My question is: Why is this a moral principle? (If you don't think it is then just say so and we'll go from there)
Your future isn't written. God knows what will happen,
Those are complete contradictions. If God knows what will happen, then our futures are written in perspective to him. Maybe they aren't written in perspective to us, but that's not the point. When we say that God created us to sin, proving that WE don't know what will happen doesn't prove that we have free will in respect to GOD. And I know I didn't quote the
but it is up to you to decide.
but I was trying to make a point. From this claim, we have 1. Our futures aren't written. 2. God knows what will happen. 3. It's up to us to decide. Number 2 just doesn't fit.
Your future isn't written. God knows what will happen, but it is up to you to decide.
If God knows what will happen, how is it possible that we have free will? If he knows exactly what I will do tommorow, before I do it, then it's been predetermined. Predetermined doesn't equal free will.
No, we have the power to overcome sin. We chose not to because we are weak and mortal.
You just ignored the question. I asked what purpose would an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god have in making us flawed. I didn't ask whether or not we can overcome those flaws.
lease ask your question as simply as possible, with as little fat as possible. If you have multiple questions, please separate them
Alright, i'll try to make this as to the point as possible.
There is no way God can be all Omnibenvolent, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent with the way the world is now, and if Hell exists. That would mean he sanctions the existence of evil, aka, not Omnibenevolent. If he does not sanction these evils, but they exist, that means he is not Omnipotent. If he is Omnipotent and Omnibenevolent, that means he has the power to stop evil and does not want it to happen, but cannot stop all of it. In either case, he cannot be all three.
The other, if we are what God made us, then what right does God have to punish us for being who we are if we truly have free will and act according to how he made us?
We're trying to understand each other's positions, and so far at least one of us doesn't or we wouldn't keep looping the discussion. So no, it hasn't gone far enough because it hasn't gone anywhere.
I believe in the bible. I don't think what Men have said, do say, or will say matters. The first time I tried talking to you guys, this is the list of links I got.
You should have tried reading some of them instead of dismissing the theory out right out of complete ignorance.
Site your verse.
Like with your request for contradictions int he Bible, I ALREADY HAVE POSTED THE VERSE!
By this, I meant that Man does not have the authority to tell me what is right and wrong, and true and false.
Those are complete contradictions. If God knows what will happen, then our futures are written in perspective to him. Maybe they aren't written in perspective to us, but that's not the point. When we say that God created us to sin, proving that WE don't know what will happen doesn't prove that we have free will in respect to GOD.
However you two try to keep rationalizing this as true, it's wrong. You are taking things out of the bible and leaving other things behind to make it sound evil. The bible says everyone has the ability to enter the kingdom of heaven. The bible says God knows everyones future. The bible says everything God desires is possible. Can all these things Co-exist? YES! Can all these things not Co-exist? YES! Both things can happen! So stop telling me it is a contradiction and there is no remedy to that!
Our futures aren't written.
They aren't written in stone. Every man has his chance to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Numbers 2? Numbers 2 what? That chapter is about Moses and Aaron.
So no, it hasn't gone far enough because it hasn't gone anywhere.
I didn't mean the argument about god. I meant you 2 arguing about what you think. 2 people are aloud to have different opinions. How about just respect how the other guy thinks about god. It's none of your business.
As said who knows how many times...I don't care what people believe, as long as they aren't forcing it onto unwilling people who do not believe as they do. When we have laws made based on their religion, and upheld because of what's in their book, and people getting killed because they are trying to force their beliefs on others, that's when it's a problem. I'm too tired to cite more examples, so, see you tommorow
You should have tried reading some of them instead of dismissing the theory out right out of complete ignorance.
Is it possible for everything in all of those links to be wrong? Yes? So who am I not to assume they are right or wrong? Am I a new light on the subject?
Like with your request for contradictions int he Bible, I ALREADY HAVE POSTED THE VERSE!
It doesn't matter. Even pastors have to site their verses every time they quote the bible.
I didn't mean the argument about god. I meant you 2 arguing about what you think. 2 people are aloud to have different opinions. How about just respect how the other guy thinks about god. It's none of your business.
And you do not have the right to shut them up. You see, if humanity never challenges anything, we would still be in the dark ages.
This thread isn't even about debating. This is not the thread to debate in. This is about how Christianity is awesome, and MageGrayWolf took it upon himself to attack it by posting the first legitimate comment on this thread, which held a very offensive political cartoon.
By this, I meant that Man does not have the authority to tell me what is right and wrong, and true and false.
Let me rephrase the question. If my pre-assumptions are incorrect, feel free to correct them. You've said that God knows what will happen and that it all goes according to his plan. Is God responsible for creating people that would grow up to reject him?
However you two try to keep rationalizing this as true, it's wrong. You are taking things out of the bible and leaving other things behind to make it sound evil. The bible says everyone has the ability to enter the kingdom of heaven. The bible says God knows everyones future. The bible says everything God desires is possible. Can all these things Co-exist? YES! Can all these things not Co-exist? YES! Both things can happen! So stop telling me it is a contradiction and there is no remedy to that!
I really don't know how else to explain this. 1. God knows everything. 2. God created everyone's minds individually, designed to react in certain ways to certain environments. 3. God created our environments. God is therefore ultimately responsible for those who get sent to Hell because he knew what they would do and he didn't stop them. Don't ignore this point, because it's important. If this is all true, then how is God benevolent?
Numbers 2? Numbers 2 what? That chapter is about Moses and Aaron.
I'm assuming you meant me but forgot to quote me. I had a 1. 2. 3. thing going on, so I meant #2, not the Bible verse Numbers 2.
2 people are aloud to have different opinions.
2 people are also allowed to discuss their different opinions.
How about just respect how the other guy thinks about god. It's none of your business.
Who said I didn't respect his opinion? I'm asking him questions about his religion and he's answering them. If he wasn't, the discussion would end. We're not approaching with a "You're position is invalid" approach, but rather a "Here is the justification for my position based on what you've told me about your position" thing.
